Is my Grandfather Seamaster a patchwork?

fabcat72 · Mar 13, 2023

Hi everybody,
I really need this community help.
I finally have in my hands from my mother , my grandpa 18k Gold Seamster from the '60, it is working fine, but surely It needs a service and I will give it to the lab for it, but before , I would like to clarify some big doubts I have on this watch. It looks Like it is a patchwork with different Seamasters.
1) 552 MV'T with DATE: from inside picture the movement is 552, but the watch has the date, how can it be possible? Has it been modified to host the date? Is the bridge with 552 applied to another movement that has the date ring? Is there any 552 movement with the date?
2) The reference number is 23000000 that should correspond to year 1966, but the dial seems to be older. I've only seen the indexes and those hands in Seamaster from '59 to '62 no date models.
3) Hands seems to be incorrect , can second hand be no gold in a solid gold watch?
4) Swiss Made , or Swiss is missing.

I'm sure the watch is original but perhaps too much revork has been done on it, btw t is so sharp after at least 30 yeas in a drawer...

PLS HELP.😟

Thanks and best regards

WhatsApp Image 2023-03-13 at 21.42.30.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2023-03-13 at 21.42.29 (3).jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2023-03-13 at 21.42.29 (2).jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2023-03-13 at 21.42.29 (1).jpeg

JwRosenthal · Mar 13, 2023

Hi fabcat and welcome. As you suspect, this watch has been worked on and not well. The dial has been repainted, second hand replaced as you suspected and the movement looks like it was cobbled together with several other movements. This may have all been done in good faith by a watchmaker to whom your grandfather brought the watch for service.
30+ years ago, most people weren’t as concerned with originality as we are today- they just wanted their watch to look nice and run.
But, seeing this is a family heirloom, its current state is how your grandfather enjoyed it, so I would do the same if I were you. Just have it serviced and wear it.

X350 XJR · Mar 13, 2023

You will find more information searching reference Seamaster 14701.

The caliber should be 562, so at some point the bridge was swapped likely because of some sort of damage, certainly not unheard of. It's likely that the dial was refinished at some time as well although it is probably the original dial, this was a fairly common practice back in the day.

fabcat72 · Mar 13, 2023

JwRosenthal
Hi fabcat and welcome. As you suspect, this watch has been worked on and not well. The dial has been repainted, second hand replaced as you suspected and the movement looks like it was cobbled together with several other movements. This may have all been done in good faith by a watchmaker to whom your grandfather brought the watch for service.
30+ years ago, most people weren’t as concerned with originality as we are today- they just wanted their watch to look nice and run.
But, seeing this is a family heirloom, its current state is how your grandfather enjoyed it, so I would do the same if I were you. Just have it serviced and wear it.

Dear JwRosenthal,
thank you so much for the fast answer.
Despite I'm not an expert my suspects where correct.
Surly I didn't get the watch for reselling it, therefore as you also suggested I will do service from Omega autorized lab, (but not OMEGA)
There I can chose exactly what to do with a bit lower price...
I will do movment service, basic dial clean. Some date number on the date ring are screwd up, let's see what can they do to fix it.
I will ask to polish the glass and the case.

What do you suggest for the second hand? Replace it with a gold one? compatible?

Thanks again

Fabrizio from Rome (Italy)

fabcat72 · Mar 13, 2023

X350 XJR
You will find more information searching reference Seamaster 14701.

The caliber should be 562, so at some point the bridge was swapped likely because of some sort of damage, certainly not unheard of. It's likely that the dial was refinished at some time as well although it is probably the original dial, this was a fairly common practice back in the day.

Dear X350 XJR,
thanks for your answer.
Indexes seems , infact, to be reapplied , the one at 12 is not so properly centered....
I was surprised that a crosshair dial has been reprinted. ....

Duracuir1 · Mar 13, 2023

Nice strap! My friend is a jeweller and when they polish Gold they have a trap that collects the gold dust. I would suggest that you not polish the case. Cherish the watch’s history and how it got its dents and dings. And add your own marks as you enjoy wearing it.

JwRosenthal · Mar 13, 2023

fabcat72
Dear JwRosenthal,
thank you so much for the fast answer.
Despite I'm not an expert my suspects where correct.
Surly I didn't get the watch for reselling it, therefore as you also suggested I will do service from Omega autorized lab, (but not OMEGA)
There I can chose exactly what to do with a bit lower price...
I will do movment service, basic dial clean. Some date number on the date ring are screwd up, let's see what can they do to fix it.
I will ask to polish the glass and the case.

What do you suggest for the second hand? Replace it with a gold one? compatible?

Thanks again

Fabrizio from Rome (Italy)

If you take it to an independent watchmaker with an Omega parts account (very specific they have their own parts account not a watchmaker that “knows a guy who can get some parts”) they can order all the factory parts you need including the correct gold second hand and date wheel. It won’t be cheap, but it will be done properly and to factory specifications. At the time you drop it off (or send it to them) let them know what you want- don’t machine polish the case, polish the crystal or replace it with a factory crystal if the original has any cracking etc.
What you get back will be lovely and something you can pass on to future generations of your family with the story attached.

Bruce235 · Mar 13, 2023

I would keep the second hand. It is a touch short, but it is blued which is a cool look.

fabcat72 · Mar 14, 2023

JwRosenthal
If you take it to an independent watchmaker with an Omega parts account (very specific they have their own parts account not a watchmaker that “knows a guy who can get some parts”) they can order all the factory parts you need including the correct gold second hand and date wheel. It won’t be cheap, but it will be done properly and to factory specifications. At the time you drop it off (or send it to them) let them know what you want- don’t machine polish the case, polish the crystal or replace it with a factory crystal if the original has any cracking etc.
What you get back will be lovely and something you can pass on to future generations of your family with the story attached.

Yes JwRosenthal, it is a lab that is official for Longines, Omega, Tissot and Hamilton service, therefore I guess it can order whatever is official and still avaliable on markets.

About polishing the case, is there any very light aproach in doing it? Very conservative way?
I don't want him to use my case powder for his next gold creations, but If my watch is getting better who cares....

About the Dial, can it be original and just repainted? Or even there it is a mix of indexes and lines and crosshair look?

I heard somewhere but I don't remember where that there are cases where swiss /swiss made is missing even on original dials.... is it true?

Thanks...

Fabrizio

fabcat72 · Mar 14, 2023

Bruce235
I would keep the second hand. It is a touch short, but it is blued which is a cool look.

It seems to be Omega from another non gold watch....
Honestly it depends on How much time/money is to change it to a gold one

JwRosenthal · Mar 14, 2023

fabcat72
Yes JwRosenthal, it is a lab that is official for Longines, Omega, Tissot and Hamilton service, therefore I guess it can order whatever is official and still avaliable on markets.

About polishing the case, is there any very light aproach in doing it? Very conservative way?
I don't want him to use my case powder for his next gold creations, but If my watch is getting better who cares....

About the Dial, can it be original and just repainted? Or even there it is a mix of indexes and lines and crosshair look?

I heard somewhere but I don't remember where that there are cases where swiss /swiss made is missing even on original dials.... is it true?

Thanks...

Fabrizio

I was basing my judgment on the dial being repainted by the photo you included which isn’t very close or very good. The S in Seamaster is usually one of the tells. Taking a close and sharp picture (outdoor lighting) of the dial will give us a better look.
As for polishing, if it’s an authorized service center, they will probably be able to do a quality case refinish, some places are better than others. Usually a light hand polishing will take down most of the scars.

fabcat72 · Mar 14, 2023

JwRosenthal
I was basing my judgment on the dial being repainted by the photo you included which isn’t very close or very good. The S in Seamaster is usually one of the tells. Taking a close and sharp picture (outdoor lighting) of the dial will give us a better look.
As for polishing, if it’s an authorized service center, they will probably be able to do a quality case refinish, some places are better than others. Usually a light hand polishing will take down most of the scars.

Thanks,

from these pics?

WhatsApp Image 2023-03-14 at 13.46.16.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2023-03-14 at 13.44.55.jpeg

JwRosenthal · Mar 14, 2023

fabcat72
Thanks,

from these pics?

Yeah, it was repainted long ago.

fabcat72 · Mar 14, 2023

JwRosenthal
Yeah, it was repainted long ago.

Reprinted 🤦
but vintage reprint 😉

Thanks for the support!

Bruce235 · Mar 14, 2023

fabcat72
It seems to be Omega from another non gold watch....
Honestly it depends on How much time/money is to change it to a gold one

Based on these better pics, i would say that the second hand is not blued but a black generic hand? It is too thick and should have more taper to be a period Omega.

fabcat72 · Mar 14, 2023

Bruce235
Based on these better pics, i would say that the second hand is not blued but a black generic hand? It is too thick and should have more taper to be a period Omega.

Ok, thanks for the feedback, at this stage I think I will ask for a gold "original" one...

JwRosenthal · Mar 14, 2023

fabcat72
Ok, thanks for the feedback, at this stage I think I will ask for a gold "original" one...

Yeah, you already know the shop you want to take it to, go forth and prosper!

fabcat72 · Mar 29, 2023

JwRosenthal
Yeah, you already know the shop you want to take it to, go forth and prosper!

🙁

Just a small update on this matter after I went to my shop.....

They confirmed what we discovered, in addition to this he also checked that the glass is also not original but....
...but, he , at the moment, refused to go for servicing it is as the screw shown in the picture is cut and he can't then re-tune the watch....
the one in the picture is from the web and it is good, mine is borken.
He told me: dress it as long as it works, the we decide what to do......

Dan S · Mar 29, 2023

fabcat72
🙁

Just a small update on this matter after I went to my shop.....

They confirmed what we discovered, in addition to this he also checked that the glass is also not original but....
...but, he , at the moment, refused to go for servicing it is as the screw shown in the picture is cut and he can't then re-tune the watch....
the one in the picture is from the web and it is good, mine is borken.
He told me: dress it as long as it works, the we decide what to do......

Maybe you should find another watchmaker.

JwRosenthal · Mar 29, 2023

Dan S
Maybe you should find another watchmaker.

Yeah, that’s just the adjustment screw on the gooseneck, the whole assembly comes out on its own.

Is my Grandfather Seamaster a patchwork?

fabcat72

JwRosenthal

X350 XJR

fabcat72

fabcat72

Duracuir1

JwRosenthal

Bruce235

fabcat72

fabcat72

JwRosenthal

fabcat72

JwRosenthal

fabcat72

Bruce235

fabcat72

JwRosenthal

fabcat72

Dan S

JwRosenthal

Similar threads

Request help re my Grandfathers vintage Omega watch

Parts to repair my Grandfather's Seamaster 168.023 (751 cal)

Need help with Seamaster I inherited from my grandfather

Request for info on my grandfathers watch

Information about Longines inherited from my grandfather

Newbie introduction and my grandfather's Constellation 14747-1