Is an OMEGA SPEEDMASTER SCHUMACHER worth collecting?

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Right. One can rationalize all one wants but in the end, the community speaks. Watches that have every reason to be collectible aren't and vice versa. Check back in 15 years and if you find broad appreciation and a thriving market , congrats, you were right - but don't be surprised if all those compelling reasons added up to nothing. I've been doing this long enough to have a few of my calls verified by time. And I'll be damned if I can understand why some were right an others wrong.
 
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roadsterdoc - I don't want you to think we are giving you a bashing on here, we are not. There are people on here who speak with way more experience than I do, I'm a novice when it comes to the world of watches compared to some on here. What we are saying is that these MS pieces just don't have the same following as the Moonwatch for example. You only have to look at the 'Reduced' speedys that litter every part of eBay they just don't have the following and therefore command less money on the preowned market. The schumi's are the same unfortunately.
 
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I agree completely Lou.

Case in point: The Rolex Daytona Reference 6239 produced in the late 1960s was popular with the watch community at the time, with the notable exception of the exotic dial versions. The exotic dials were not embraced by the watch crowd at all, the were terribly poor sellers in the 60s and 70s. It took about 20 years for the exotic dial 6239 to eclipse the value of the otherwise identical non-exotic dial 6239. The auction prices have continued a steady linear increase in value unlike any other serially produced watch in the history of horology.*
So the notion that it's not collectible because "look around the Omega forum right now, they aren't popular" is flawed logic.

*- Benjamin Clymer, Hodinkee website, and a also direct quote below:

"Do not, even for a single second, try to reason with yourself why prices of Paul Newmans are so, so much higher than normal Daytonas. Or, why they are so, so much higher than exotic dial Heuers, Universals, or other comparable chronographs from similar time periods. It just doesn't make sense if you look at things on an even remotely pragmatic level. But, nothing about collecting watches, in particular vintage Rolex watches, makes sense on paper, does it?"
 
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Yea, that's really not a valid comparison though, you're talking on one hand about a vintage watch with a highly regarded movement that had an important place in the history of a brand that became popular after the fact and was never intended to be a limited edition and then about a series of manufactured limited editions that can hardly even be described as limited given how many they pushed over so many years.

I know you own one and want it to be special but unless its a VERY high demand watch in a VERY limited production run such as the original Apollo-Soyuz, or the Apollo 13, manufactured LE's never really matter. I own a Gemini IV LE (one of 2005) which is far more limited than most and has a quite desirable colour scheme but even that isn't worth retail any more for the same reason.
 
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roadsterdoc - I don't want you to think we are giving you a bashing on here, we are not. There are people on here who speak with way more experience than I do, I'm a novice when it comes to the world of watches compared to some on here. What we are saying is that these MS pieces just don't have the same following as the Moonwatch for example. You only have to look at the 'Reduced' speedys that litter every part of eBay they just don't have the following and therefore command less money on the preowned market. The schumi's are the same unfortunately.


Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I understand they don't have much of a following and I fully agree. But I think there are factors that make them much more collectible than what the current popular opinion dictates. As LouS indicated, time will tell. 😀
 
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Yea, that's really not a valid comparison though, you're talking on one hand about a vintage watch with a highly regarded movement that had an important place in the history of a brand that became popular after the fact and was never intended to be a limited edition and then about a series of manufactured limited editions that can hardly even be described as limited given how many they pushed over so many years.

You missed the point completely. I was comparing apples to apples: the standard dial 6239 to the (hugely unpopular in its day) exotic dial 6239. It took decades + Paul Newman wearing one to become hugely collectible. Same movement, same everything, but a dial that was disliked by the watch aficionados back in the day.

Just because it's not popular now doesn't mean it won't be collectible. The Schumi Omegas have an excellent pedigree. It's no Newman Daytona, that's not at all what I was saying.

I do see your point about the intentional limited edition & manufactured collectibility of the series. But this type of marketing is done with every type of popular product in the past 30 years, right? It doesn't destroy collectibility of knives, firearms, cameras, purses, and so on. And remember, there are different years, versions, etc; some plentiful and some truly limited.
 
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You missed the point completely. I was comparing apples to apples: the standard dial 6239 to the (hugely unpopular in its day) exotic dial 6239. It took decades + Paul Newman wearing one to become hugely collectible. Same movement, same everything, but a dial that was disliked by the watch aficionados back in the day.

Just because it's not popular now doesn't mean it won't be collectible. The Schumi Omegas have an excellent pedigree. It's no Newman Daytona, that's not at all what I was saying.

Both the standard and exotic dial Daytonas were worth very little, they weren't hated by any means its just that neither were particularly popular until the automatic Daytonas came out and were in high demand. Then regarding pedigree, as mentioned previously there is no 861/1861 powered MS Speedmaster, only automatics which are not really as desirable, especially the piggyback ETA+DD powered reduced models.
 
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Thanks for the extra advert, but keep the sales talk to the sales forum in future please.
 
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Schumacher edition Omegas are as collectible as any other watch. Relative value depends on the model. Some were not limited, while others were limited edition runs of 11,000, 6000, 5000, and even 500. All limited edition watches are numbered.

There are other factors unique to the Schumacher Omega that add to its intrigue:

-Formula1 is the most popular worldwide sport next to soccer/football, thus increasing worldwide interest in this particular collectible. IOW, beyond WIS'ers, sports memorabilia collectors, Ferrari fans, persons with German national pride, etc. will seek these watches.

-Michael Schumacher is the most successful F1 driver in the history of the sport, holding seven world championship titles which is unlikely to ever be eclipsed. He also holds the most FIA records overall. Michael Jordon, Pele, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, Wayne Gretzky: These names are synonymous with their sport, as is Schumacher's.

-MS is retired (twice). He is not likely to return to the sport again. During all his years as world champion he was an Omega ambassador (cheeky title, no?). Correspondingly, there will be more interest in the watches made during this period.

-Only two watch manufacturers produced MS edition watches. MS switched to Audemars Piguet in 2010 for his second career with Mercedes and these years were not record breaking. Pre-owned AP editions range from $44-125K as of today on the chrono24 market site. That's good company for the Omega editions, and offers collectors two tiers of exclusivity.

-Every year with Omega, a new MS version was produced. Within a year there may have been several dial options. This gives a range of choices for different tastes. It also creates the opportunity to collect every MS edition, and dial variant! I know WIS'ers with half a dozen and seeking more. Also the multi-year run (at least seven?) of this series increases overall population awareness. Omega did a lot of advertising with MS. If nobody is aware of an item, there is less interest and decreased value. Not a problem here.

Formula1. The Schumacher domination era ended several years ago. The most winningest F1 driver in history. He still holds the most records, had plenty of controversial behavior, is known to be intelligent, calculating, altruistic (donated millions to charity, natural disaster victims, etc), and loved what he did with a passion that was enjoyed by millions of fans. Omega named his watch series "The Legend" and aptly so.

In conclusion:
Lots of Schumacher Omegas? Yes! This adds to the general population awareness which will keep the interest alive.
Collectible? Yes! Some rarer than others.
Variety? Yes! Something for almost every taste.
Exclusivity? Yes! No longer made, limited numbers, you do the math.

I will try to post links to websites which review different MS editions. None are complete or current, which to me adds intrigue to this unique Omega edition.

I hope you enjoyed the read!


Just read your post on MS speedmaster watch. Very informative and thank you for sharing your knowledge

I like many of the variations. If I am going to pick one of the MS professionals which one do you suggest based on reasoning not looks.
 
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It's very hard to know what will take off in value, and buying these things for investment is an absolute lottery. If prices go up of course all is forgiven, but if they don't (or if they drop) it's a long time to tie up money, and/or own a watch which I don't like (my opinion). I'd have no issue if I loved the watch - I still enjoy it and wear it, but buying something I'm so-so on in the hope it goes up...

One example is I own an original Senna TAG 6000 from 1994 - on bracelet, mint condition, boxed, papers, numbered etc. Cost at the time was about £1,000, and value now is about the same (and £1,000 then was a LOT more than it it's worth now). No issue though, as I was a huge Senna fan, and love the watch, but if I'd bought a FTSE tracker I'd have more than doubled my money despite three fairly major stock market swoons during that time. I'd still far rather own the Senna (despite it being a TAG quartz! 😉)
 
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I have a 2001 Michael Schumacher which was limited to a small run of only 11,111 watches. 😁 I think roadsterdoc's MS Speedy with a run of 500 and unique (for Omega) dial is very collectable. Mine, not so much. The only problem is even though his watch is collectable the number of collectors wanting the watch is quite a bit smaller than some other vintage watches.
 
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They have made exactly 498,232 Speedmasters over the last 60 years. It’s obvious that none are collectible.
 
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I love it when old threads get resurrected.

I recently acquired a Shumacher in red. I bought it because I like the smaller size of the reduced Speedmasters, I like the look of the watches and I can wear them like I stole them. The problem with some watches is they're too "precious" to wear and enjoy. My old Speedy Transitional only gets worn with care. My Speedmaster autos have all the fun...

 
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Never owned one but looking at the 20 year prior history from omega speedmaster line which one is the most dominated model and here is your answer right there. In my own words
 
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Take a look at the WRUW thread. The amount (or should I say lack thereof) Schumacher models should give you the answer. 😉
I agree, it doesn't seem to be a watch that a lot of people are that interested in. I guess it would come down to what the OP wants to accomplish by "collecting" watches.