Friends this is my first post here, although I am a frequent contributor on other watch forums. LouS asked me to share some photos and as for some opinions on this watch. I posted a photo of it on Jeff Stein's OTD Heuer forum and Lou sent me a private email questioning its originality, as did GiGi. I then sent them both sent them both a copy of a letter dated September 1970 from Zenith to the original owner which talks about this watch and which shows a drawing of the watch with setting instructions. After speaking with Lou on the phone he encouraged me to post some pictures here and get some of your opinions.

I will post two photos below...one of the dial and case front and one of the original letter from the factory. I will also include a link to a gallery of more photos. (These photos were taken with my iPhone so please excuse the quality)

I believe from family lore and records that the original owner ordered/purchased this watch from a jeweler in Lucerne and had it shipped to him in the US. This gent owned a lot of wonderful watches and corresponded frequently with the manufacturers.

I would love to have your opinions. Thank you all in advance.

Here is a link to my gallery: http://www.johncotephotography.com/Watches/ZenithLuna/index.html

 

Short of the prototype PHF, this may be the most fascinating Zenith I've ever seen posted.

It has the case & tach ring of the GH 2081 (of which Rossler claims only 20 were made), yet it has the dial from the Luna Luxe G20809 (the all gold version of the Espada, of which 61 were made).

Here's the page from Rossler so those without it can understand what I'm talking about:



The fact that it combines characteristics of two such rare examples and that Zenith provided instructions based on a drawing of it suggests it's authentic and may be one of only a few made.

 

That is spectacular. What size is the case? It is interesting that the conventional dial is inlaid inside of the Tachymetre ring.

I have heard of the custom, "one off" approach in high-end cars, producing a unique Aston or Ferrari for exceptional customers (back in the day) but never in the watch world. I'm not suggesting that this is in the Eric Clapton, Patek sphere, but where on earth do you go from here?

The only thing that does bug me is the dial. Why, if they were producing a one-off, would they not have the dial made especially as one piece? As a cost, it would have been insignificant.

It is beautiful but confusing. Perhaps it was a custom case?

 

Thanks DSIO,

Here are a few facts about this watch which may be relevant to this discussion:

1) This watch has been in the possession of the original owner, who received the pictured letter, or his family until very recently.
2) The same owner loved and owned a small collection of superb wrist and pocket watches many of which were the top end triple date or perpetual date watches from the leading Swiss makers.
3) The examples in his collection seemed to be pretty well documented including correspondence with the manufacturers.

Thanks again for your opinions.

 

The only difference in the case being the concealed crown in the Rossler photos.

 

Stewart,

This bothers me too but this gent knew what he liked. I believe he was in Lucern earlier in 1970. Could he have seen a picture of this dial before the Espada was actually available and special ordered it in his preferred case?

JohnC

 

Thanks Lou. The dial in the illustration in the letter (shown) appears as GiGi pointed out to me in private correspondence, slightly different than the dial which is actually on the watch. The 10 and 50 minute markers are different at least. The illustration is not detailed enough to see perfectly but it is slightly different. The case and attached mesh bracelet are an obvious match. I just can't imagine why the owner would have ever changed the dial from what he originally bought.

JohnC

 

I have made some spectacular, red wine fueled, decisions on watches - more good than bad (fortunately) In this case, with a piece of this importance, I would ask for pictures of the inside and outside of the case back and write to Zenith to get them to confirm the authenticity before pulling the trigger. You could always place a conditional, holding deposit.

The other thing that occurs to me is, what was the nationality of the original owner? If he was from an English speaking country, wouldn't the day and month disc be in English? I'm not trying to be negative, just cautious.

 

Me too...I fact I have had a couple of glasses of red this afternoon

As Lou says, the case back pictures are in my gallery to which I have given access. Unfortunately a decision will have to be made before I can get a reply from Zenith.

The owner was American but he had other watches purchased in Lucerne with the French Day and Month indications.

 

OK, here is a question. Above, Veritas99 posted a photo credit to Rossler shown below....


My watch is from '70. The Rossler watch is from 71 and says "El Primero on the dial where mine says Luna Luxe. When did the actual Luna Luxe dial first appear?

 

Well I know I'm jumping in rather late, but given all that I've seen, read and know, I would pull the trigger on this one. Of significance to me is that everything fits at least something of what we know or what is shown in the accompanying papers, and nothing stands out as just plain wrong. Zenith has always been full of surprises. And I certainly would NOT be put off by an apparent variation in the markers shown in the illustration . In the advertised illustration of my adored G581, the 8 o'clock marker is missing altogether. Lou suggested I hack off the one on my watch for authenticity, but I declined Do let me know, dear John, if you plan not to proceed, plus give me the phone number!

 

So sorry to be so late to this party. It took a little while to shake the family loose today and assemble the requisite analytical tools:



This spectacular watch called for more than red wine. Well, what's to say that hasn't already been said? I guess I would note that I would have had no idea that the GH 2081 and the WH 40802 existed without the photos in Rössler from the Pfeiffer-Belli archives, as I have never seen examples of these references elsewhere. Who knows what else the early Primero makers might have been up to in 1969-70?

The documentation from Zenith is compelling. If you accept that drawing of the watch in the instructions from Zenith as legitimate, then the watch is, to me, unquestionably legitimate in its entirety.

The relationship of the dial and tachy ring is indeed discomforting, but this is just how it is represented in the drawing. I agree with Chris about the issue of the hour markers in the drawing; it's a schematic, not photorealism, and it does depict that separation between the chapter ring and the tachy ring, as well as the distinctive bracelet. Clearly this dial was meant to be coupled with a smaller tachy ring, as we see in the tonneau case LouS shows above. If it were not for this issue with the dial, I might entertain the possibility that this watch was part of a (very) limited edition. Instead, it must be a custom job, with a customized drawing for the instructions. And the instructions, with their typos and awkward English, smack of authenticity... maybe the first instructions in any language for a 3019 PHF.

I like the idea that a wealthy collector might have been infatuated with the wonderful new movement Zenith had produced but completely put off by the standard ultra-luxury options, specifically the poker chip dial and the tonneau case, both of which are not for everyone. He might also have had the sense to ask for a properly sized winding crown that wasn't maddeningly concealed under that lip around the front of the case.

In sum, I agree with the consensus that this watch is a one-off "factory Franken." I think the alternative... that both the papers and the watch are fraudulent... is considerably less likely. If you are comfortable with the seller and documentation, I recommend buying it before the factory does.

 

Ardbeg is my medicine of choice too. My last bottle is a little low but I think I will have a nip. Thanks for the advise all.

 

If you like the Ardbeg and haven't had the Ardbeg Corryvreckan, give it a try, but beware... it will spoil you for the standard stuff.

Good luck!