Increase about omega service

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Sure, I'm not saying the service price should reflect the cost of the watch. But in the past I could have my watch serviced for 250eur. Now even when I bring it in neatly on time without many parts being worn out I pay three times more, just because they've moved on to more complicated movements and people don't take in their watch for servicing unless its broken.

The number of watchmakers is dwindling, and there's nowhere near enough being trained to replace those who are retiring or dying off.

Are you really surprised when the price of getting a service done goes up, when that service is increasingly in demand, while at the same time there is a diminishing supply of those who can provide the service?

As I keep saying, the lack of watchmakers is the biggest threat to this hobby...
 
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If service for a chrono is 1k usd every 5 years, that's a monthly fee of $17. Not bad. A newspaper, tv subscription is the same or more.

The problem is when you have 10 or more. "Look but don't touch" is always depressing to hear. "Look but don't wind" is an equally depressing thought.

It could make more inherited watches less attractive to heirs, bringing them into the used watch market.

It could make a small watch rotation more attractive.

It could mean more flowers and chocolates for your favorite watchmaker.
 
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The number of watchmakers is dwindling, and there's nowhere near enough being trained to replace those who are retiring or dying off.

Are you really surprised when the price of getting a service done goes up, when that service is increasingly in demand, while at the same time there is a diminishing supply of those who can provide the service?

As I keep saying, the lack of watchmakers is the biggest threat to this hobby...

While I understand the value of hands on training, where can I get a good virtual class? I know YouTube has some good channels, but I'm willing to pay for group or individual instructors. AWCI did some during the pandemic but haven't added any to their roster since 2020. I'm in south jersey, so there's not much local to me I'm general, let alone a watch repair school.
 
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Inflation.

Rubbish. Inflation isn't running at >25%pa unless maybe you live in Zimbabwe, North Korea or the Weimar Republic*.

*one for the history buffs and Teutons amongst us.
Edited:
 
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While I understand the value of hands on training, where can I get a good virtual class? I know YouTube has some good channels, but I'm willing to pay for group or individual instructors. AWCI did some during the pandemic but haven't added any to their roster since 2020. I'm in south jersey, so there's not much local to me I'm general, let alone a watch repair school.

Nothing I'm aware of. But if your goal is to actually learn stuff with the idea of doing servicing yourself (as a business or just your own watches) I highly recommend attending one of the AWCI classes in person. Many classes are a week long so you can use vacation to take them - much easier than moving to a place and attending watchmaking school full time.
 
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Nothing I'm aware of. But if your goal is to actually learn stuff with the idea of doing servicing yourself (as a business or just your own watches) I highly recommend attending one of the AWCI classes in person. Many classes are a week long so you can use vacation to take them - much easier than moving to a place and attending watchmaking school full time.

I have been talking to my wife about this. I'm not really all too far from Ohio.
 
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While I understand the value of hands on training, where can I get a good virtual class? I know YouTube has some good channels, but I'm willing to pay for group or individual instructors. AWCI did some during the pandemic but haven't added any to their roster since 2020. I'm in south jersey, so there's not much local to me I'm general, let alone a watch repair school.

25 or so years ago (plus or minus 10 years) I wanted to attend Watchmaking school between contracts. The way the tech industry worked one needed to find a new position to keep up every 18 months or so. I was told I was too old. The other factor was I was making top dollar in the industry. (well others (men) got 25 to 30% more but that is how the world works. And is off topic here.)

What I did was find some mentors to learn from. Not sure that is still an option. Seems like a lot of those who repair for a living have so much work, they do not have much time to teach. (Which is why having Archer online is a blessing) It also seems the quality contracts (we will not use the work anti-competitive) also prevent such folk from helping others or sharing materials.

There was a member on the Horological Tours, who was a top NY watchmaker. Supposedly he learned the trade on the streets of Buenos Ares. Or similar SA country. He would look for street sweeper bristles (now nylon.) the old ones were steel. He told a story how he would use the paving stones to file them into useful screwdrivers. I believe he also used Henry's Textbook.

If you do not have Henry's Textbook(s) then get them. I wonder what happened to the NY schools Henry was so proud of? One would think that there is some vestige of them 30 years later. Where ever Henry went in the world there would be people who wanted him to autograph his book.

People in the UK have access to the BHI, which has a great wealth of trade publications. Especially the ones from the 1950s. Similar for other countries I have some of the Swiss Horological journals (in french or English) from the 1950s. While a lot of the books deal with the exceptions, there is some good foundational material to be had.

One of the things my mentor would have me do is file. How to sit, how to hold the file etc. I also took jewelry classes. Same thing for using the jewelers saw. Boring as hell. Was told a story how one had to file a perfect cube. Student took the project home and used a milling machine. Teacher said, make 100 more exactly the same.

Grinding polishing is also similar. I am amazed how many grinding tools I acquired back in the day. One has to learn how to grind the tools and drills. I had to do this again to see if I could make a screw remover. (wound up etching it out.) Now I think I understand (some 30 years later.) that one does not grind the parts one makes or adapts the tools needed. Like a special stake for removing Bettlach hairsprings that are riveted in place.

It really becomes about the tools and learning (or re training oneself) as to how to use them. Especially the heat treating processes, which is probably something not done in watch assembly school. It always seems the tool one needs is the tool one does not have. Most of the reason I do not want to work on my speedmaster, is I would need about 5000 in fixtures to hold things proper. (Yet I have no issue working on similar Lemania movements in my Tissot, or house branded watch. There are watches and there are watches.)

I have also mentioned before that the GI bill applied to watchmaking trade schools. Big cities like NY and SF still had them. The SF school shut down in the mid 1990s. Some of these schools were correspondence schools. Look for books by William O. Smith Jr. He wrote the Esembl-O-Graph books along with his father. His book Twenty first century watchmaking, deals with replicating parts for things like the Valjoux movements. I think these guys may have been behind the AWI. Back in the 1990s the AWI had an attitude. Considering themselves above hobbyists. I think they may now be the AWCI having added clocks. I always found it interesting that both the NAWCC and the AWCI put watches in the name before clocks. I started with clocks. (again through mentors.) Mostly as I was interested in mechanical dolls.

Some of the US stuff from the 1950s is 'stolen?' from the Swiss trades and reprinted in the American Horologer and Jewler, which was pretty good before the 1970s. There was a columnist named Jesse Colman. Who had a down home folksy style. Most of the reprints deal with clocks. A lot of the old guys like my mentor did both. My mentor did not do watches as he said his eyesight was not good enough. I think he did not really want to deal with customers and warranty work. Dorian also maintained the tower clocks in SF as well. He had another 'apprentice' who was a Berkley engineering student. That student re designed the hands on the Ferry Building restoration which has dials a few inches larger than big been. Perspective is everything. Dorian's shop also had tower clock mechanisms in the window. Even I had to get a small tower clock movement (which I still have and sits next to the refrigerator.) So it is easy to get carried away.

My initial focus was on pocket watches. (which still sit in the drawer after 30 years.) It was only by accident, which I have posted before, that I became interested in Omega watches, as the Omega folk gave a lecture on the tour buss and gave us reprints of the old catalogs. I also got catalogs at the Basil fair.

I think I have posted most of this before. But like my AS 1187 refresher watches. It sometimes is good to revisit the basics. Filing is only done in one direction hardly ever is back and forth motion used. It works like a plane, shaving metal off the part. Curved files make flat surfaces, flat files round the edges and curve the surface. I think filing was used more in clock making than watchmaking.

The other thing my mentor would have me do was make a balance staff. I think I have a PW somewhere what I made a staff for. I also ruined most of my friend's collection of center wheels and pinions attempting to find one that would fit a repeater I have. That did not help our relationship and may also be why some are hesitant to teach. With clocks it is common to replace the pivots. This can also be done in watches, apart from the differences in tolerances.

It looks like I did squirrel away a box of stuff for a day like today. Perhaps now that I am in my 60s, I am the right age to be a watchmaker. I also chose to save chronographs and automatics for the future. (which seems to be now.) Yet it is the simple AS and ETA that I am currently finding most satisfying while I dream of once again working on my lesser Omegas.
 
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I have been talking to my wife about this. I'm not really all too far from Ohio.
But Ohio is not as pretty as Upton or Trent or Nuechâtel Switzerland.

I know I should probably look into it myself. Or what ghost is left of the local NAWCC chapter(s) Last I went they were basically Rolex swap meets run by the more Asian leaning members. Most trading was done in the parking lot.

Wonder if Dorian retired? Every year when the clocks change they would interview him in the newspaper. I never go to the City anymore (and I live 20 miles from it as the crow flies. It is 35 miles driving either through a mountain or around it. 8 of those miles are over water and through another small mountain.

Did take the long way home from the Cow palace over the big orange bridge a few weeks back. One of the other people stopped for something to eat in the city and had their car broken into. Props and costumes stolen.

Much easier to do an online search, but never bother to do that when command-R refreshes the page already open.. (It take time to write 1000 word posts.)
 
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The shortage of qualified repairers has been recognized by the industry for at least 40 years. I visited the Audemars Piguet factory back in 1982 after I took possession of an AP perpetual calendar watch that I had ordered from Gubelin in Luzern many months previously as they were in extremely short supply. They arranged a factory tour for me, and that was at a time when very few customers/collectors ventured to places like Le Brassus. Martin Wehrli showed me around the factory which was before all the subsequent expansion, AP was a pretty small player making less than 10,000 watches at that time. Anyway Martin Wehrli mentioned that their big concern was after sales service, there just weren't enough watch repairers around as many had given up during the quartz era as they figured there was no future for them. They have been fighting that problem ever since. There are probably enough qualified people in Switzerland now to do all the design, manufacture and assembly of NEW watches, but out in the wilds of the real world there just aren't enough souls capable of working on watches, especially complicated ones. It is no surprise that prices for overhauls and service are going up at a rate greater than inflation.
 
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The number of watchmakers is dwindling, and there's nowhere near enough being trained to replace those who are retiring or dying off.

Are you really surprised when the price of getting a service done goes up, when that service is increasingly in demand, while at the same time there is a diminishing supply of those who can provide the service?

As I keep saying, the lack of watchmakers is the biggest threat to this hobby...
An interesting topic I admittedly know nothing about. I’m curious what the Swiss are doing to incentivize new blood to become watchmakers and address the problem. From the outside looking in there doesn’t appear to be a lack of capital in the industry. Or are they okay with long and expensive service queues? Not looking for you to answer Archer. Just rambling.
 
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An interesting topic I admittedly know nothing about. I’m curious what the Swiss are doing to incentivize new blood to become watchmakers and address the problem. From the outside looking in there doesn’t appear to be a lack of capital in the industry. Or are they okay with long and expensive service queues? Not looking for you to answer Archer. Just rambling.

Well, most of the major players have opened schools. However they are typically limited to class sizes of 12 students each year, and it takes at least 2 years to get through, so the number of newly minted watchmakers is small even if you add up all the schools and everyone graduates (which is not a given).

But that's not the primary way the brands are addressing the issue. They have made a number of changes in the way that watches are serviced, to speed up servicing...

1 - More assemblies replaced, rather than individual parts - for example watchmakers in service centers don't replace balance staffs typically, which can be a time consuming job that requires some skills. They just reach into a drawer and pull out a new balance complete, and drop it in. Same with mainspring barrels - now often the entire barrel is replaced, rather than just the mainspring. Parts are not repaired generally, they are replaced - for example the main bridge on the 861 Speedmaster movements often has a worn hole where the barrel arbor rides, which is something I repair by installing a bushing - they replace the entire bridge. Often this leads to a lot of waste, because of the balance staff is bad, or the mainspring is bad, or there's a worn hole, the rest is fine - they just take the fastest route.

2 - Increased use of unskilled labour - using people hired off the street and trained in specific tasks. This happens in 2 ways:

2a - The initial disassembly of the watch when it arrives, so the removal of the bracelet, opening the case, removing the movement, removing the hands and dial. Then refinishing of the case, installing new case parts. The movement itself is worked on by a fully trained watchmaker, and then it goes to more unskilled labour to have the dial and hands installed, and the final casing performed. Swatch group has been doing this for over a decade.

2b - The use of what is known as selective assembly. This expands the use of unskilled labour to the movement, and very much resembles an automotive assembly line. Workers are trained to install just a specific section of the movement, then it moves down the line to the next worker, until the movement is assembled. The final adjusting and timing is done by a trained watchmaker.

3 - Movement swaps. Tudor does this with the newer movements, Omega does this will the modular chronograph movements. Often these movements will be sent back to a central facility to be repaired, and then sent back out to be installed when another watch comes in for servicing. This speeds up the service of your specific watch, but you get a different movements each time.

I expect more of 2 and 3 in the future, rather than these places increasing the number of watchmakers they train...
 
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Nothing I'm aware of. But if your goal is to actually learn stuff with the idea of doing servicing yourself (as a business or just your own watches) I highly recommend attending one of the AWCI classes in person. Many classes are a week long so you can use vacation to take them - much easier than moving to a place and attending watchmaking school full time.

I would like to do this. I am purchasing a spare watchmakers desk from my watchmaker, who is gradually starting to divest himself of some things. It has tons of small drawers for storage and it will be a convenient place to do the simple things I'm comfortable with. Perhaps it will motivate me to start learning more and eventually commit to taking a course.
 
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Thank you @Archer, that is very helpful and good information to know. I can see how all points but especially 1 and 3 will keep many seeking a trusted independent watchmaker. As a beginner with only a few watches worth servicing it’s good to keep all this in mind when considering further purchases.
 
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I would like to do this. I am purchasing a spare watchmakers desk from my watchmaker, who is gradually starting to divest himself of some things. It has tons of small drawers for storage and it will be a convenient place to do the simple things I'm comfortable with. Perhaps it will motivate me to start learning more and eventually commit to taking a course.
Was my thought exactly, some 10 years ago.
Got a neat bench and some tools and proceeded to damage most of what I touched. Now I just watch in awe after learning that watch collecting was a hobby but watchmaking...a science..

Moral:
If you have trouble stabbing your foot through the leg hole of your underwear in the morning, consider something besides surgery or watchmaking.
 
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The assembly line approach Archer mentioned maybe addresses this.

I’ve sometimes wondered why the turnaround time for watch servicing has to be so long. Is your watch really being attended to for 6-9 weeks, or is it sitting in a box for the first 5 weeks before someone finally gets to it, and then does the servicing and regulating and testing, etc? If it’s the latter, it’d be nice if it was treated more like servicing a car, where you schedule it and can keep the watch until they’re actually ready to receive it. (Like they send you a label and tell you what day to ship; you get it back 2 weeks later.)

But if it’s assembly line style, maybe that’s just not possible. Too many stations the watch has to pass through.
 
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Moral:
If you have trouble stabbing your foot through the leg hole of your underwear in the morning, consider something besides surgery or watchmaking.

Hi, I felt my ears burning.
 
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If there’s been a know shortage of watchmakers for 40 years has there not been a decent increase in pay for the watchmakers to increase the amount of new entrants being attracted to the profession or if not, why not?
 
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Hi, I felt my ears burning.

Me 3.

These videos on lubrication convinced me that I don’t have what it takes to be a watchmaker.



The level of control over the smallest surfaces is beyond my capability. I think I might be able to physically do it once or twice, but to have the mental fortitude to maintain those high standards day in and day out, not likely.

Similar reason to why I don't do my own dental work.