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I'm dumbfounded. How in the hell does Seiko pull it off?
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Laharrier
·I strongly disagree and I love Seiko. Dial finishing and hands are not the same league.
Again I propose personally handling any of the new Presage watches or the SBDC053/051. I have louped these watches and louped my Omega Devilles and Tudors side by side and the finishing is remarkably similar. Omega does a great dial, as do many others but who of the Swiss is doing this anywhere close to $1000?
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerIn this instance I would really implore you to put in your hands the Seiko I posted, or perhaps one of their new Presage watches, or if youre able a Grand Seiko.
If you would like to send me the watch, I am willing to do an objective side by side comparison of it and a modern Omega, and post the results here. PM me and we can work out the details. I'll include real timing data, photos of the movements, pressure testing, case details - the whole works.
Oh, and I've handled and serviced many Seiko watches of varying quality, including Grand Seikos.
I am quite certain having held them side by side, that my SBDC pictured in my reply has fit and finish equal to that you'd find on a Planet Ocean many times its price, or a Black Bay.
Well, given what I have seen of the watch from what you posted, I doubt it would match a PO based on my earlier comparison. I can't speak for the Black Bay.
Additionally, Seiko is a vertically integrated manufacturer well beyond many of the prominent Swiss brands, making every piece of their movements, including their hairsprings and mainsprings. Quality control is outstanding, and mechanical performance just as good.
This is an interesting bit of information for those who are not aware, but in reality doesn't have a lot to do with the objective quality. Timex pin-lever movements were all "in-house" as well, and although rugged no one would call them pretty or terribly accurate.
Now bring in to consideration the finishing techniques used on Grand Seiko, which can be had for $1500+, and you are talking about fit and finish equal to Swiss watches $10,000+, not to mention Seiko's technology in movements like their high beats and spring drives.
I don't know of a Grand Seiko that can be had new for $1500 - please let me know what model you are specifically referring to thanks.
Seiko technology for high beat movements is nothing different to high beat movement from other makers, like Zenith for example. The Spring Drive being a quartz watch, that is a whole other conversation, but yes it's unusual in the way it's been done.
The watch you have is a nice watch certainly, but I think saying it is the equal of watches costing many times the amount this does is a disservice to the Seiko. It stands on it's own merits and really doesn't need the sort of hyperbole that is often seen on forums.
Cheers, Al
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Laharrier
·^^ Not my photos obviously. Forgot a disclaimer lol. That baby snowflake is next on my hit list. A dial like I really have never seen. Looks different in every type of light. The cocktail time watches are also remarkable.
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Laharrier
·If you would like to send me the watch, I am willing to do an objective side by side comparison of it and a modern Omega, and post the results here. PM me and we can work out the details. I'll include real timing data, photos of the movements, pressure testing, case details - the whole works.
Oh, and I've handled and serviced many Seiko watches of varying quality, including Grand Seikos.
Well, given what I have seen of the watch from what you posted, I doubt it would match a PO based on my earlier comparison. I can't speak for the Black Bay.
This is an interesting bit of information for those who are not aware, but in reality doesn't have a lot to do with the objective quality. Timex pin-lever movements were all "in-house" as well, and although rugged no one would call them pretty or terribly accurate.
I don't know of a Grand Seiko that can be had new for $1500 - please let me know what model you are specifically referring to thanks.
Seiko technology for high beat movements is nothing different to high beat movement from other makers, like Zenith for example. The Spring Drive being a quartz watch, that is a whole other conversation, but yes it's unusual in the way it's been done.
The watch you have is a nice watch certainly, but I think saying it is the equal of watches costing many times the amount this does is a disservice to the Seiko. It stands on it's own merits and really doesn't need the sort of hyperbole that is often seen on forums.
Cheers, Al
Agreed with many of these Points Archer! I dont want to overwork my point, but I do stick by my opinion on it 😀
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Laharrier
·
Haha!
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Faz
·Laharrier convinced me...incoming!
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Laharrier
·Ha! If I can stop wearing it!
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Laharrier
·Where are you located?
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Laharrier
·I agree and understand the skepticisms. I wasn't a fan of seiko for a long time, and this is my only current Seiko. I do believe this is a piece that must be seen in person.
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Mtek
·I own a new PO, a new 053. The Seiko is no doubt a great value, but the tactile feel of the bezel movement and crown threading and function is no where close to my Omega. The bezel on the 053 does look amazing, but we will see how hammered it gets with the chosen finish soon I think.
Seiko is my fav brand. I would compare my Marinemaster to the PO, but even it isn’t as refined to me.
Seiko is my fav brand. I would compare my Marinemaster to the PO, but even it isn’t as refined to me.
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Jerseyhammer
·Hi all,
Finally received my Seiko SKX009 diver. I'm really scratching my head over this one. I paid USD $ 199.99, brand new, warranty, in box and delivered to my door, for a mechanical watch,as accurate as any luxury mechanical, excellent fit and finish, screw down crown, super lume, 200 m certified dive watch on bracelet. I must be dreaming?
I knew all about them through members and all, but having one in the flesh makes me think that Seiko knows something other manufacturers don't. I don't want to cause a stir or a debate here, but Rolex commands $ 10k for a Submariner. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Rolex (ok, the older ones..) and proudly own a couple that I love dearly.
This Seiko, and I suppose the others in this line, are more than an excellent value, they are an absolute steal. My cherished Sub and GMT-Master now have company with this exceptional timepiece. I am as impressed as I am happy!
Cheers,
I know what you mean the whole divers range is fantastic value and quality . The autos especially and the X range in particular . Enjoy your Pepsi colour version I’m still after the green one. Enjoy
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larryganz
·This thread has been... interesting.
I think that some Seiko watches have a place in our collections, which come in at all levels (from low-end to high-end). I think some of us feel a bigger connection to watches that have a heart-beat of their own, with that ticking automatic movement vs quartz, even at the expense of accuracy.
I have a few Seiko watches, including a 5 year old SKX-173 that I wore during my son's Eagle Scout project as a beater to protect my good watches (and on few other occasions where it's now become sentimental to me). I'm having it returned to stock, after playing with a Yobokies Tudor BBR mod for a while, because I think Seiko had it right the first time. I also have a nice 22 yr old SKX-009 with faded Pepsi bezel, and a NIB unworn SKX-007 as a backup.
I consider the SKX watches to be tough and durable but attractive beater watches. Although a G-shock would make more sense as a beater, most of them are not aesthetically pleasing to me and don't connect with me. But my Seiko SKX's also aren't the most accurate in the bunch, and run anywhere from +/- 10-20 sec/day.
Still, from a distance and when worn for only a few days at a time, the lack of finishing and time-keeping would not be noticeable to the casual observer - they might just see a cool looking diver with a smoothly ticking second hand on the arm of a confident person, and assume it's expensive.
My watchmaker says that with all of these SKX watches that it's easier to just wear them until they die and then install a $100 movement, instead of servicing them where some parts aren't easy to obtain and replace (although he did service my older 009 instead). Was it worth the additional cost of servicing it? Maybe not, but I like knowing that the 009 as is still original from it's build date in the mid 90's.
I also picked up a PADI Turtle when they came out, and it seems to be built with a higher degree of attention to detail, in the finish and the time keeping, although still not on the level of a low-end Swiss watch. Both my PADi and Blue Lagoon run a little closer to my Swiss watches, where my PADI averaged -1.5 sec/day over a 330 day period, and my Prospex LE ran -2.2 sec/day over a 100 day period. However I no longer keep them on a winder and I just wind them up if I want to wear them (I'm down from having 17 watches on winders to just winding 4-7 watches in my rotation, and even those get changed out every couple of months).
I have a black PVD Astron solar GPS chronograph, which also hads great attention to detail, but my favorite of all Seikos in my collection is my Grand Seiko SBGX115 white dial diver with the 9F61 HAQ movement. My GS averages about +5 sec/yr, and it's a beautiful watch to look at and appears to be as well made as my Omega and Rolex watches. Only my Omega X-33 Solar Impulse is more accurate at +2.9 sec/yr.
And no, the chapter ring is not crooked, I just didn't have the bezel strait in any of my GS photos, even taken weeks apart, due to my own lack of attention to detail.
I think that some Seiko watches have a place in our collections, which come in at all levels (from low-end to high-end). I think some of us feel a bigger connection to watches that have a heart-beat of their own, with that ticking automatic movement vs quartz, even at the expense of accuracy.
I have a few Seiko watches, including a 5 year old SKX-173 that I wore during my son's Eagle Scout project as a beater to protect my good watches (and on few other occasions where it's now become sentimental to me). I'm having it returned to stock, after playing with a Yobokies Tudor BBR mod for a while, because I think Seiko had it right the first time. I also have a nice 22 yr old SKX-009 with faded Pepsi bezel, and a NIB unworn SKX-007 as a backup.
I consider the SKX watches to be tough and durable but attractive beater watches. Although a G-shock would make more sense as a beater, most of them are not aesthetically pleasing to me and don't connect with me. But my Seiko SKX's also aren't the most accurate in the bunch, and run anywhere from +/- 10-20 sec/day.
Still, from a distance and when worn for only a few days at a time, the lack of finishing and time-keeping would not be noticeable to the casual observer - they might just see a cool looking diver with a smoothly ticking second hand on the arm of a confident person, and assume it's expensive.
My watchmaker says that with all of these SKX watches that it's easier to just wear them until they die and then install a $100 movement, instead of servicing them where some parts aren't easy to obtain and replace (although he did service my older 009 instead). Was it worth the additional cost of servicing it? Maybe not, but I like knowing that the 009 as is still original from it's build date in the mid 90's.
I also picked up a PADI Turtle when they came out, and it seems to be built with a higher degree of attention to detail, in the finish and the time keeping, although still not on the level of a low-end Swiss watch. Both my PADi and Blue Lagoon run a little closer to my Swiss watches, where my PADI averaged -1.5 sec/day over a 330 day period, and my Prospex LE ran -2.2 sec/day over a 100 day period. However I no longer keep them on a winder and I just wind them up if I want to wear them (I'm down from having 17 watches on winders to just winding 4-7 watches in my rotation, and even those get changed out every couple of months).
I have a black PVD Astron solar GPS chronograph, which also hads great attention to detail, but my favorite of all Seikos in my collection is my Grand Seiko SBGX115 white dial diver with the 9F61 HAQ movement. My GS averages about +5 sec/yr, and it's a beautiful watch to look at and appears to be as well made as my Omega and Rolex watches. Only my Omega X-33 Solar Impulse is more accurate at +2.9 sec/yr.
And no, the chapter ring is not crooked, I just didn't have the bezel strait in any of my GS photos, even taken weeks apart, due to my own lack of attention to detail.
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Spruce
··Sunburst dial fanNice post @larryganz
