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Hunt for a Speedmaster Professional Mark II - racing dial

d4uk
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Hi All... I'm new to this forum, and in fact new to this hunt for an Omega.

I'm usually a fan of all things rolex... but after seeing the 2014 reincarnation of the Mark II in the window of my AD this weekend and liking it, I searched the web for the original 1969 model and seem to have really fallen for the 861 calibre model... ideally with the racing dial.

Chrono24 has thrown up 1 or 2 - as has eBay and the likes - but my lack of knowledge on this piece is making me nervous about fakes or frankenwatches... and so not sure how or where I can start to locate a model...

all help would be appreciated..
 
d4uk
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Ah sorry maybe wasn't clear , I'm looking for the whole watch preferably with the racing dial, not just the racing dial.., there are 1 or 2 complete watches on eBay at the mo but none of them look 100% convincing to my cynical/doubtful mind.
 
JimInOz
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d4uk d4uk
Ah sorry maybe wasn't clear , I'm looking for the whole watch preferably with the racing dial, not just the racing dial.., there are 1 or 2 complete watches on eBay at the mo but none of them look 100% convincing to my cynical/doubtful mind.

If we can see your examples we can provide guidance.

There's little risk of posting the eBay links here, if anyone else is after one they will already be watching or bidding 😁
 
d4uk
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Thanks Jim
There's a couple Ive spotted on ebay:
This one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271657204825?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
which looks like it has had a hard enough life (haven't we all though after 40+ years!) but seemed a good honest example and reasonable price. It ended this morning.. so not available anymore... but wanted to know if members thought it looked genuine?

Then there is this one in Switzerland:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201213368293?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Much more money - but with a recent service and warranty and seemingly box and papers - though the box doesn't look right to other complete sets I've seen.
Also the case is polished which I'm not keen on - but presume this could be brushed again by a watchmaker. (it also seems to have either been very well looked after or had a lot replaced at the service as the dial/hands/crystal all look new and not faded at all.

Wanted to get a feel for if either or both were genuine of not and if people though that if they were both genuine the prices represented accurately the values from private sellers for watches at each end of condition range ie: GBP £800ish - £1800ish
 
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flame
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Hi

Great Watches the MKII 'racing' dials....I've had a few....here is one for reference:



I think you should be looking in the £1200 - £1500 GBP range for similar condition -

Best - Neil
 
d4uk
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A beauty Neil and whilst I'd be looking for one on a bracelet I'd be very tempted to put it on a sports style strap as per the one in your pic.

Out of interest am I being overly paranoid to mistrust the pieces that I've seen on eBay - or is the Mark II one of the lesser 'faked' watches as I've read that also..
 
ashleysteadman
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Welcome d4uk!

What's not clear is whether you are looking to buy something to wear daily or if you are looking for a quality original to keep as part of a collection (or something in between)?

If you're looking for a Speedmaster Mark ii simply to wear and for your own enjoyment, then I personally wouldn't be worried about whether the dial and hands are original or even if there is paperwork. While it is a great watch, generally speaking the Mark ii in has not achieved the same level of mass collectibility as the Speedmaster Professional (the "Moon watch") so you may be hard pressed to find an original Mark ii in perfect condition that hasn't been updated/refurbished/altered in some way.

We're a friendly bunch on here so we can help you in your journey to find the right watch, so keep the links coming. I'm actually waiting on delivery of
My own Mark ii which I'm going to be completely refurbishing with racing dial/hands so you'll probably see a thread about it over the next few months. It will likely be for sale once
completed unless I can sneak this one under the girlfriend's radar! 😉

And yes, most of the 861 caliber watches (especially the Mark ii) have not been faked/replicated much as far as I've seen in my travels.
Edited:
 
d4uk
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Hi Ashley - thanks for the welcome.. and apologies yes I guess I didn't want to come on all bullish and be like "hey guys Hi I've got tons of watches and just looking for another!" But you're right this will determine what condition I'd be looking for.

So yes I do have a collection of other watches mostly Rolex and I'm looking for this Mark II to add to that collection. (so a little bit of a departure)
Most of my pieces are modern non vintage pieces and for that reason I may also try and buy the new 2014 version of this Mark II Speedy - because being an auto and being the type of collector I am it would suit me more..

So I guess the question could be "why bother with the original" - well I really do like the retro look of it it's not out of this world expensive... and also '72 is my birth year so if I could find one from then that would be really nice to have the original and the new model..

Condition wise I'm quite relaxed about - sure box papers and a mint condition would be ideal but given it's 40+ years old I guess there aren't so many out there like that and those that are command top money.. I'm not worried about ones having been refurbished although would like it to at least have the right bracelet though guess you can always pick one of those up later...
Edited:
 
d4uk
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Hi Ashley your project sounds very interesting - as does possibly putting it up for sale afterwards... are you carrying out the refurb yourself or sending it away for the facelift? BTW What year is yours?

I quite like the idea of a 40 year piece looking brand new - I realise it's may not be in keeping with some peoples idea of how a vintage piece should be (removing the patina of life etc) - but it is more my cup of tea and comparable with the new model

I mean I love the side by side shot they have on the Omega website of old and new mark II which is probably what sparked this hunt in my mind..
Edited:
 
Stewart H
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To answer your question about the eBay ones, I see that the Kuwaiti one auction finished and as you have observed, the second one has a nastily polished case as well as a crazy price. The facets on the top and bottom of the case should be a mirror polish with sharp edges and the top should have a starburst brushing.
 
d4uk
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Hi Stewart apart from being a bit rough... did the Kuwait one look original? I mean is it likely 'an old smoker' like that one would be a mocked up fake - rather than just a well used piece?
 
ashleysteadman
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d4uk d4uk
Hi Ashley - thanks for the welcome.. and apologies yes I guess I didn't want to come on all bullish and be like "hey guys Hi I've got tons of watches and just looking for another!" But you're about this will determining what condition I'd be looking for.

No need to apologise - just wanted to understand a bit more about what you're looking for! 😀

d4uk d4uk
Condition wise I'm quite relaxed about - sure box papers and a mint condition would be ideal but given it's 40+ years old I guess there aren't so many out there like that and those that are command top money.. I'm not worried about ones having been refurbished although would like it to at least have the right bracelet though guess you can always pick one of those up later...
d4uk d4uk
I quite like the idea of a 40 year piece looking brand new - I realise it's may not be in keeping with some peoples idea of how a vintage piece should be (removing the patina of life etc) - but it is more my cup of tea and comparable with the new model

Great so it sounds like you're a bit like me then - I love the idea of old things but I also love the idea of them looking (close to) factory new as long as they have been done so true to original. You can see here for an example of this as to the lengths I'll go to!: http://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-861-calibre-revival-project-speedmaster-professional.9196/

There are (until the end of next year at least) plenty of parts available new from Omega for these watches so you're almost spoiled for choice when it comes to your ability to refurbish these back to "factory fresh" kind of finish - this is what makes the 861 calibre watches so awesome and interesting to me! If you know a good watchmaker (or if you want to find one on here - looking at you @Archer !) then you might find it more rewarding to buy a piece that's not in the condition you want it to end up being and have it faithfully restored. It would take more time but you might find that you really enjoy the journey!
 
ashleysteadman
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d4uk d4uk
Hi Ashley your project sounds very interesting - as does possibly putting it up for sake afterwards... are you carrying out the refurb yourself or sending it away for the facelift? BTW What year is yours?

I think mine is a '69 but I haven't received it yet. Once I have it in my hot little hands I'll know more 😀

Regarding the refurbishment, as you can see from my previous post I don't tend to do things in half measures! The case refurbishment will likely be done by one of our forum members over in Perth, Australia (I'm in Sydney, Australia) who does amazing work bringing the Mark ii sunburst finish back to life (unlike many watchmakers who polish the whole case making it shiny and awful 🙁 ), other cosmetic work by myself, but I won't be servicing the movement - I leave that to my watchmaker! I will no doubt create another thread like what I did for the Speedmaster Professional Restoration for everyone to enjoy so watch the forums!
 
d4uk
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Hi Ashley

Just read through the thread about your moon watch overhaul - very impressive... and also making me think of another project for the future...

Also would be interested to understand a price range for buying a piece needing an overhaul (though I have an idea of what these will be) and also an idea of how much money it will take to have that kind of watch properly overhauled:
so movement service
new dial/hands/bezel/crystal etc
full case refurb
poss new or overhauled bracelet..

if you'd rather not reveal this info on the open forum i'm happy to take to PM.

thanks
 
Stewart H
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d4uk d4uk
Hi Stewart apart from being a bit rough... did the Kuwait one look original? I mean is it likely 'an old smoker' like that one would be a mocked up fake - rather than just a well used piece?
That went for a good price - someone did well there. It wasn't perfect, but if I had seen it, I would have gone for it. The marking of "T SWISS MADE T" show it as an original dial and it looks to be in a decent condition.

Personally, I prefer an un-polished case - like this one appears. A few dings can be addressed but polishing and the inevitable removal of material that this entails, can never be reversed.
 
d4uk
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Stewart H Stewart H
To answer your question about the eBay ones, I see that the Kuwaiti one auction finished and as you have observed, the second one has a nastily polished case as well as a crazy price. The facets on the top and bottom of the case should be a mirror polish with sharp edges and the top should have a starburst brushing.

Thanks Stewart
I was watching it but not confident to bid and be sure it was right... Also would have preferred the seller to be 100% on feedback, but maybe I'll know next time...
 
oddboy
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I'm not the expert, but I think generally, the Mark series isn't all that prone to faking. The hands on this one might be new-ish service replacements (not as aged as the rest of the dial). Looks like the bezel doesn't quite line up with the 12 hour marker, possibly just the result of a service.

Generally though, a good price for a decent condition Mark II. It will probably sell for a bit more than currently listed price.

I'm sure some other more seasoned members will add more (or correct me!).
 
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