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How to differentiate 3590.50.00 with 1996 3570.50.00 tritium

cuonglm
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Hello, owner of 3861 Moonwatch here, and I’m looking for my first neo-vintage Moonwatch.

I’m leaning to either 3590.50.00, and recently get an offer from a local seller, advertising the watch as 3590.50.00, but through my check, the result seems to be a 3570.50.00 tritium instead.

Here’s some pictures:

IMG_6537.jpeg IMG_6544.jpeg IMG_6545.jpeg


What I see so far:

- The watch has 861 movement with 18 jewels. Note that the bridge is stamped as "eighteenth jewels", not seventeenth (shown by pictures from seller).
- The watch serial number is 48352xxx, which I check through ilovespeedmaster website, resulting 3570.50.00 tritium 1996.
IMG_6546.jpeg

- The watch has tachymetre with accent.
- The hands looks bright, much newer than the rest of the watch, and seems to have luminova instead of tritium. Sounds like they are replaced during service.
- The caseback stamps both 145.0022 and 345.0022, the seller said it’s CNC. Sounds like it’s replaced during service, too.

IMG_6547.jpeg


With these things in mind, I make a conclusion that this is a 3570.50.00 tritium, not 3590.50.00

Some questions:

- Is me assessment right?
- If this is a 3570.50.00, then how could I differentiate it with a 3590.50.00?
- Does 3590.50.00 only use tachymetre without accent, or there is overlapping with accent ones?
- Is there a price guide for for these neo-vintage, same as speedmaster101 for vintage ones? Specifically, what is a reasonable/buyable price for this watch if you ever bought it?

Thank you.
 
Donn Chambers
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Does it really matter? If you are looking for a tritium dialed Speedy with an 861 movement, either a 3590 or early 3570 will do. And the 3570 is a little more unique (one extra jewel, limited production), so there’s that.
 
cuonglm
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Donn Chambers Donn Chambers
Does it really matter? If you are looking for a tritium dialed Speedy with an 861 movement, either a 3590 or early 3570 will do. And the 3570 is a little more unique (one extra jewel, limited production), so there’s that.

Yeah, I know, just want to be sure that my understanding is right. Also, the bezel tachymeter may be important to some people.

Logically, A == B does not imply A is B. As a seller, It’s better to advertise the right product, so the buyer would have more confidence and truth.
 
Donn Chambers
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cuonglm cuonglm
Yeah, I know, just want to be sure that my understanding is right. Also, the bezel tachymeter may be important to some people.

Logically, A == B does not imply A is B. As a seller, It’s better to advertise the right product, so the buyer would have more confidence and truth.

You are asking a lot of a seller to be an expert in the minutiae of Speedmaster models - holds for both casual and dealers. Doing a casual Google search would find lots of references to the 3590 with tritium dial and 861 movement that looks like the sellers watch. Voila, it’s a 3590 for sell. And even if the bezel is slightly different, most people won’t even notice. The seller might have even bought it as a 3590 and assumed that’s what it is.

Never trust ANYTHING a seller says. Always do your research. And yours has suggested he is listing as the wrong model. Is it nefarious to get more money from you — unlikely. Just an honest mistake from a non-expert. Correct him if you want, but ultimately it comes down to what you want.
 
Dan S
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I really don't care about the nit-picking around the reference number.

The bigger issue for me is that the hands look like they may be luminova replacements, which would be a deal-breaker for me because they look badly mis-matched.
 
cuonglm
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> Never trust ANYTHING a seller says. Always do your research.

Am I doing my research here, no? There’re a lot of things need to be confirmed, e.g:

- Is the seller right or ilovespeedmaster website right?
- Is the watch a 3570.50 or a 3590.50 with replacement parts of a 3570.50?

You told me to do research, but said to me that it does not matter whether that watch is 3570.50 or 3590.50 . English is not my native language, so maybe I mis-understood you here. At this moment, I just see the conflicting from your posts.
 
cuonglm
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Dan S Dan S
I really don't care about the nit-picking around the reference number.

The bigger issue for me is that the hands look like they may be luminova replacements, which would be a deal-breaker for me

Same for me, the seller even tried convincing me that there could be mixing between tritium dial + luminova hands for 3590.50.00 model when the transition to 3570.50.00 happened. Clearly it is not.

The watch is in very good condition, but the hands mismatching prevents me from buying it.
 
OneTwo
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cuonglm cuonglm
the seller even tried convincing me that there could be mixing between tritium dial + luminova hands for 3590.50.00 model when the transition to 3570.50.00 happened. Clearly it is not.
Regardless of the watch and mis-matched parts, this for me would the deal breaker. Buy the seller. If a seller is trying to convince me of something to get me to buy the watch it's a red flag. Hard sales attitude / techniques (convincing) rather than soft selling attitude (buy if you'd like) is always something that sets off a warning for me.

Also it may just be the photo of the watch from the dial side, but something looks off with the lug shape to me as well. Case back is also suspect to me.
 
padders
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The big difference between 3590 and early 3570 was the bracelet. If that’s not present it doesn’t really matter. I too would rather not have tritium dial and SL hands as the mismatch will annoy you long term. Despite what your seller says, no watch left the factory like that.
 
ibis888
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It's not hard to find a correct, very nice example of a 3590.50 in the low to mid $4,000USD range. There are several for sale right now at various reputable dealers. No reason to buy one that isn't exactly what you want.

Here’s my 3590.50 with a 4,827,XXX serial. Note the difference in dial registers:

IMG_2172.jpeg
Edited:
 
Dash1
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ibis888 ibis888
It's not hard to find a correct, very nice example of a 3590.50 in the low to mid $4,000USD range. There are several for sale right now at various reputable dealers. No reason to buy one that isn't exactly what you want.

Here’s my 3590.50 with a 4,827,XXX serial. Note the difference in dial registers:

IMG_2172.jpeg
Take this advice.
 
Donn Chambers
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cuonglm cuonglm
> Never trust ANYTHING a seller says. Always do your research.

Am I doing my research here, no? There’re a lot of things need to be confirmed, e.g:

- Is the seller right or ilovespeedmaster website right?
- Is the watch a 3570.50 or a 3590.50 with replacement parts of a 3570.50?

You told me to do research, but said to me that it does not matter whether that watch is 3570.50 or 3590.50 . English is not my native language, so maybe I mis-understood you here. At this moment, I just see the conflicting from your posts.


Sorry, thought it was clear from the context. Your assessment seems correct. It is a 3570 with service parts.

My comment regarding does it matter was merely that if you want a tritium dial Speedmaster with an 861 movement, either reference is fine.

but if you 100% want a 3590, this is not the watch you want
 
NotJackson
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Lots of good advice above. I have a tritium 3570.50 with the 18 jewel cal 861 movement. Other than the fact that it’s the last of the tritium Speedmasters, I don’t think there’s anything to set it apart from a 3590.50. If I were looking for a tritium Speedy from this approximate timeframe, I would concentrate on condition and buying from a reputable seller. These shouldn’t be that hard to find in nice condition.
 
cuonglm
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> My comment regarding does it matter was merely that if you want a tritium dial Speedmaster with an 861 movement, either reference is fine.

I see what you mean now, and agree with you.

But with this post, I just want to know my research/learning so far is right, and is there anyway to differentiate these 2 models (one above said about the bracelet), so I can learn thing that still confuse me after my researching, that’s all.

I decided not to buy the watch before posting this, mainly because of the dial and hands mismatched.
 
cuonglm
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ibis888 ibis888
It's not hard to find a correct, very nice example of a 3590.50 in the low to mid $4,000USD range. There are several for sale right now at various reputable dealers. No reason to buy one that isn't exactly what you want.

Here’s my 3590.50 with a 4,827,XXX serial. Note the difference in dial registers:

IMG_2172.jpeg

Thank you, looks awesome.

Am I right that all 3590.50.00 will use bezel having tachymetre without accent, and have dot next to 70, instead of dot under 70 like later models?
 
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