- Posts
- 2,675
- Likes
- 7,487
gostang9
·You know, I actually typed “holding my breath” first, and then deleted and changed it preemptively...
Horology 101: the 5 Most Influential Automatic Wristwatch Calibers
- Posts
- 2,675
- Likes
- 7,487
gostang9
·delete: duplicate
- Posts
- 2,675
- Likes
- 7,487
gostang9
·delete: triplicate
- Posts
- 2
- Likes
- 0
tuancele
·I agree ☝️Eterna are so undervalued, I know I'm going to perhaps sound biased as I own the Eterna as seen above But as a collector this in my opinion is such a important piece, and the movement has been used ever since and by some big watch houses as well. Could you imagine the price it would be if it had one of the big watch houses names on the dial !! Saying that as I said I'm a collector and for the Horological significance I love this piece, the first 5 ball bearings movement so early in production that they housed it in a cases made for their bumper automatics !!
- Posts
- 2,327
- Likes
- 2,541
Professor
·I've not looked at all the locations that are jeweled to determine if the use of a jewels is an advantage or not. But certainly the use of jewels in those reversing wheels is given more value than it actually has - that's the role of the marketing department after all. All brands do it to one level or another.
Cheers, Al
Are some jeweled bearing missing from these wheels?
- Posts
- 29,234
- Likes
- 75,568
- Posts
- 2,327
- Likes
- 2,541
Professor
·What do you want to know?
What makes you think anything is "missing"?
Haven't found anything on the Midland brand, only thing I've found on the movement was that Hamilton used the 2452 calendar version with some of its products and the series , at least the 52 and 53 variants ,was well respected and popular. Sounds like a high quality movement.
If you'll look closely at those wheels one appears to have four jewel bearings while the other has only two . Seems like if these were intact they would both have four or more evenly spaced. Perhaps all the holes filled with bearings.
If there are 25 jewels in the self winding variant and the basic movement is a 17 jewel then four bearings on each wheel would add up to 25 jewels total.
- Posts
- 29,234
- Likes
- 75,568
Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerSorry, but unless you have specific questions, there's not much I can help you with. It's a pretty common movement used in it's day, and part of the 2450 family.
Remove the 2 screws holding the automatic bridge in place, unscrew the rotor from the underside (1 screw) then turn the eccentric and remove the reversing wheels. You can look for yourself then...
If there are 25 jewels in the self winding variant and the basic movement is a 17 jewel then four bearings on each wheel would add up to 25 jewels total.
Remove the 2 screws holding the automatic bridge in place, unscrew the rotor from the underside (1 screw) then turn the eccentric and remove the reversing wheels. You can look for yourself then...
- Posts
- 22
- Likes
- 40
Peter Marsh
·Very interesting, thanks.
- Posts
- 256
- Likes
- 346
dputydwg1
·Interesting topic and so much history to be explored.
- Posts
- 342
- Likes
- 342
nttisch23
·Great write up! Thanks for taking the time to do this
- Posts
- 302
- Likes
- 1,185
TimtimeIntl
·Wow, just saw this thread and great write up and informative replies. Thx for sharing all.
- Posts
- 302
- Likes
- 1,185
- Posts
- 2
- Likes
- 0
kcbbq
·I love learning new stuff! Keep it coming. Thanks!
- Posts
- 140
- Likes
- 311
bobbee
·I suppose it depends on your vantage point.
Rolex didn't add much to the Harwood principle except to make it 360º (and still uni-directional).
Felsa developed the first successful 360º bi-directional winding movement, which I consider as important a step as the Eterna rotor.
My vision is probably obscured by my distaste for the Rolex PR machine and the fact that they had to withdraw their claim regarding invention of the first automatic watch and issue a public apology to John Harwood, although that had to be dragged out of them.
Even today they still claim an "invention", even though they neglect to say anything about the winding method.
First, an amazing thread with great information for all. Many thanks to all contributors.
Regarding the winding method made (or not) by Rolex, I too was told that they have not given any proof.
After looking at their first patent though, and viewing a translation from the French (given on the Espacenet search site), it appears to clear things up a little.
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/pub...KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19321031&DB=&locale=en_EP
As you can see, the claims mention two methods of energy generation, one in the conventional way i.e. the crown, and the other being a: "pinion driven by a mass that moves relative to the ratchet,
built during accelerations imposed on the watch."
The 'mass' being the rotor weight , and the 'accelerations' the spinning of it during movements of the watch.
That is my understanding, but YMMV. 😉
- Posts
- 17,612
- Likes
- 36,834
JimInOz
··Melbourne AustraliaThankyou for your input.
As I understood the Rolex patent (post Harwood), the "perpetual" rotor, although able to rotate through > 360º, only wound the mainspring in one direction of its rotation.
Thus my belief that Felsa was the first to design/market the fully bi-directional winding automatic rotor wound movement.
I welcome any information to clarify the situation.
As I understood the Rolex patent (post Harwood), the "perpetual" rotor, although able to rotate through > 360º, only wound the mainspring in one direction of its rotation.
Thus my belief that Felsa was the first to design/market the fully bi-directional winding automatic rotor wound movement.
I welcome any information to clarify the situation.
- Posts
- 140
- Likes
- 311
bobbee
·Here is a patent issued earlier than the Rolex patent for a non-bumper rotating automatic watch.
Max Reiner patented four self winding watch patents between 1931 and 33, all registered the PERPETUAL SELF WINDING WATCH CO. Of U.S., owned by Emil Frey.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1853637?oq=self winding watch M. Reiner
I posted these and other auto patents here:
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/self-winding-wrist-watch-patents-1817074.html
I even discovered a patent and newspaper articles concerning an 1890 patent for a 'self winding' watch not before known.
As can be seen in the patent diagram, it was wound by the opening and closing of the bracelet, very ingenious if not exactly 'self winding' as we know it!
Here are three of the 1890 newspaper articles.
Max Reiner patented four self winding watch patents between 1931 and 33, all registered the PERPETUAL SELF WINDING WATCH CO. Of U.S., owned by Emil Frey.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1853637?oq=self winding watch M. Reiner
I posted these and other auto patents here:
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/self-winding-wrist-watch-patents-1817074.html
I even discovered a patent and newspaper articles concerning an 1890 patent for a 'self winding' watch not before known.
As can be seen in the patent diagram, it was wound by the opening and closing of the bracelet, very ingenious if not exactly 'self winding' as we know it!
Here are three of the 1890 newspaper articles.
Edited:
- Posts
- 1,195
- Likes
- 1,980
rolokr
·
- Posts
- 1,195
- Likes
- 1,980
rolokr
·
- Posts
- 13,124
- Likes
- 17,999
gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorAnother awesome automatic movement IMHO
did have some issues however is the Jaeger Lecoultre Futurematic !
https://omegaforums.net/threads/hor...wristwatch-calibers.76549/page-4#post-1155961
Question: What issues? I have two of these and have no issues.
go
Similar threads
- Posts
- 5
- Views
- 4K
- Posts
- 7
- Views
- 7K
