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Heuer and Pontiac Belgian air force issued watches
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KevinB
路Been wearing this a lot lately 馃榾
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DaveK
路路Yoda of YodelersRecently added the second Pontiac that was issued to pilots of the Belgian Airforce to the collection : 38mm spilman case, valjoux 22. The markings 6B/234 have English origin, Belgium probably copied them after the war when their fighter squadrons were embedded in the RAF. F.A茅.-L.M. stands for Force A茅rienne - Luchtmacht (respectively airforce in french and dutch). 51 is the year of issue and 96 the individual number of the watch.
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yande
路Lovely pieces, thanks for sharing. Could someone explain to me the use for the three lines at the 3, 6, and 9, on what I presume is the minute register at 3 o'clock,on others but specifically the Pontiac. Something to do with flying..
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KevinB
路Lovely pieces, thanks for sharing. Could someone explain to me the use for the three lines at the 3, 6, and 9, on what I presume is the minute register at 3 o'clock,on others but specifically the Pontiac. Something to do with flying..
Nothing to do with flying but something with phone calls getting more expensive after 3-6-9 minutes.
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Professor
路It always amazes me that we had Supersonic and even hypersonic aircraft long before the Quartz and digital watches were invented, or at least commonplace.
I remember a TV show set in the late 60's to early 70's and a guy showing off his new pocket radio phone. It was the size of a tennis shoe and he proudly claimed it had a range of over three miles.
I have a personal computer and mobile phone that belonged to a relative that used it as a journalist in the 80's-90's. The PC is a Tandy, possibly the first laptop. The phone is mounted in a small suitcase with a whip antenna.
The PC was used as a word processor and the stories were transmitted from the scene to the news paper using the phone.
Collectors items only these days.
The Tandy does still have its OS floppy in the slot. if i could figure out a way to recharge or replace its batteries I'd make a stab at booting it up. It probably has less memory than a house cat.
I remember a TV show set in the late 60's to early 70's and a guy showing off his new pocket radio phone. It was the size of a tennis shoe and he proudly claimed it had a range of over three miles.
I have a personal computer and mobile phone that belonged to a relative that used it as a journalist in the 80's-90's. The PC is a Tandy, possibly the first laptop. The phone is mounted in a small suitcase with a whip antenna.
The PC was used as a word processor and the stories were transmitted from the scene to the news paper using the phone.
Collectors items only these days.
The Tandy does still have its OS floppy in the slot. if i could figure out a way to recharge or replace its batteries I'd make a stab at booting it up. It probably has less memory than a house cat.
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KevinB
路Little get-together
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yande
路Lovely pieces, thanks for sharing. Could someone explain to me the use for the three lines at the 3, 6, and 9, on what I presume is the minute register at 3 o'clock,on others but specifically the Pontiac. Something to do with flying..
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JimJupiter
路From this watchuseek thread:
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f7/th...ntage-pilots-chronograph-subdials-239657.html
"With regard to the A7 in the link above, anyway, I tend to agree with HappyJack - in aviation as well as nautical navigation - the pilot / navigator is always interested in distance per hour or distance per minute or multiples thereof - everything hinges on fractions or multiples of 60 - including position over the earth ( minutes and seconds of arc ).
A useful aviation time piece, especially one from the days when practical dead reckoning was employed, might reasonably be expected to highlight fractions of the 60 as a whole - hence the 30 minute sub-dial and highlights of tenths of that ( 3, 6, 9 etc ).
Knowing groundspeed and direction, one might plot position at 1/10 of an hour intervals on a chart. Easier to do when this time segment is highlighted on whatever you are using to time the leg.
I think the above is probably separate to the elongated 3 minute interval marks found on other chronographs such as the Benrus Skychief etc, but for those involved in aviation and navigation, working in multiples or fractions of 60 rather than 100, is just natural and normal, and will therefore be at the fore of the mind when looking at features like this on any watch designed for aviation / navigational use.
So in a way - it is almost certainly done for legibility, but I agree with happyJack that what lies behind this might well have its routes in dead reckoning navigation."
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f7/th...ntage-pilots-chronograph-subdials-239657.html
"With regard to the A7 in the link above, anyway, I tend to agree with HappyJack - in aviation as well as nautical navigation - the pilot / navigator is always interested in distance per hour or distance per minute or multiples thereof - everything hinges on fractions or multiples of 60 - including position over the earth ( minutes and seconds of arc ).
A useful aviation time piece, especially one from the days when practical dead reckoning was employed, might reasonably be expected to highlight fractions of the 60 as a whole - hence the 30 minute sub-dial and highlights of tenths of that ( 3, 6, 9 etc ).
Knowing groundspeed and direction, one might plot position at 1/10 of an hour intervals on a chart. Easier to do when this time segment is highlighted on whatever you are using to time the leg.
I think the above is probably separate to the elongated 3 minute interval marks found on other chronographs such as the Benrus Skychief etc, but for those involved in aviation and navigation, working in multiples or fractions of 60 rather than 100, is just natural and normal, and will therefore be at the fore of the mind when looking at features like this on any watch designed for aviation / navigational use.
So in a way - it is almost certainly done for legibility, but I agree with happyJack that what lies behind this might well have its routes in dead reckoning navigation."
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MRC
路In the UK and I believe most of continental Europe long-distance phone calls were charged in 3 minute blocks. Then, as now, there were a lot more people making phone calls than navigating aircraft.
https://www.retrowow.co.uk/social_history/60s/how_much_did_things_cost.html
https://www.retrowow.co.uk/social_history/60s/how_much_did_things_cost.html
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JimJupiter
路That鈥檚 true, but these watches were just aviation watches back than, issued just to pilots. I don鈥檛 think some of them extra lumed the markers to know when to end the call with mummy 馃榿
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yande
路I am old enough to still remember the 3 minute bips.. Also ""connecting now - please hold.." Back in the day, we used to be able the mimic the "insert coins now' by way of using a paddle pop stick. I still remember her, the recipient of such calls, young and buxom.. . A wayward youth, I'll admit... Thanks Mr. Jupiter for your reply!
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KevinB
路That鈥檚 true, but these watches were just aviation watches back than, issued just to pilots. I don鈥檛 think some of them extra lumed the markers to know when to end the call with mummy 馃榿
Do a quick google image search for vintage chronographs and you will see it was done on almost all of them, definitely not something reserved for pilot watches.
It's about the phone calls not aviation 馃槈
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JimJupiter
路@yande asked specifically about the 3-6-9 markers on the Pontiac. Of course on "normal" chronos it was used for the telephon thing, I think that something we all know. But on issued chronos to pilots there is a second function, which why the 3-6-9 markers are also often lumed, not by factory, but from the pilots. Or by factory like on this Breguet:
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KevinB
路@yande which why the 3-6-9 markers are also often lumed, not by factory, but from the pilots.
Do you have an example of this?
In my opinion the Pontiac was just a civilian design which they converted for military use, it's not a purposefully designed pilot watch like the Tutima Urofa 59 or the Type XX that followed it.
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KevinB
路Every Pontiac chrono from that era has those markings, not only the mil issued ones :
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JimJupiter
路I think there is something lost in translation here,..sorry for that, english is not my native language. I just wanted to say, that these markings also had a different meaning for pilots. They used it for navigation, explanation above. I have an Auricoste at my watchmaker with the hand lumed 3 min markers. Will provide pics when back in my hands.
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KevinB
路I think there is something lost in translation here,..sorry for that, english is not my native language. I just wanted to say, that these markings also had a different meaning for pilots. They used it for navigation, explanation above. I have an Auricoste at my watchmaker with the hand lumed 3 min markers. Will provide pics when back in my hands.
Oh ok no problem, also not my native language so I guess you're right.
Very curious about that Auricoste!
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yande
路Thanks for the info guys. We've a pretty good mobile plan so don't bother with the bips, or even landline anymore.. Intesting observation.. Jim and Kevin, both not native English speakers. With names like that, seems I thought wrong.. To be clear, great respect for your language skills, my Chinese is shocking.
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