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Help with value and information on 1952 Seamaster CD2767 Calibre 354 Honeycomb Dial

padders
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Oh its not run of the mill for sure, the waffle dials have a following and while they crop up fairly frequently are maybe an order of magnitude rarer than the two tones, as you say. I think you need to look at cheaper servicing options going forward if you intend to keep it in running condition. I think you could get that worked on for maybe £200 - 250, there are independents who do excellent work. You are right that to blow £500 on it a time is not a good move going forward but it shouldn't really need touching for another 6-8 years.

I wouldn't think of it in terms of it being devalued. If the original dial was shot then it didn't have any significant value to lose, at least now it is clean and presentable, just lacking a little in the originality department. If Fraser Hart told you it was worth thousands and would gain from a restoration they were mistaken but I can't see how you can hold STS responsible, they do what they are asked to do and estimate before commencing work in my experience.

All this is IMHO. If am am wrong and collectors are filling your inbox with 4 figure back door offers then happy days, but as a collector who has owned 3 fat lugs and dozens of other vintage Omegas I think I have a handle on approximate values by now.
Edited:
 
cristos71
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padders padders
STS no doubt did what they could within the instructions you gave, asking them to re-fit the hands they removed 5 years ago strikes me as a fools errand. They will have either been binned or re-purposed by now and their warranty is 2 years so they have no obligation to help. They will have fitted what Omega offer as the current replacement for this calibre and model, often on an older watch this is not exactly like for like.

It is not overly restored and indeed might ensnare a noob, but any intervention on the dial will be detectable to a seasoned collector and collectors generally value originality over all things. Its funny you mentioned Somlo since they are more than happy to sell over-restored shiny things at hugely inflated prices to rich Mayfair types with more money than sense. If it were in their window it would probably be priced at £2K. Unfortunately in the real world (ie an Ebay or Fellows auction) considering the lug gold cap damage I think it would be lucky to make £5-600 all IMHO of course. I am probably coming across as unkind and my opinion unwelcome, that is not my intention but I wouldn't want to see you throw yet more money away if you are looking to sell this. An extract for instance wont add the £100 it costs so wont be worth it unless you want the info for sentimental reasons of course.

If its value to you is truly in the sentimental then the monetary value is secondary. You will forgive us for being a little skeptical about this though since you have already sold it once. If the purpose of your posts is to sell it here then I think you are maybe out of luck since the dial intervention would be the kiss of death for many on here, myself included.

You wrote exactly what I was thinking.
 
cristos71
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autocalibre autocalibre
Interesting, I am a newbie here, but I have a very similar Seamaster, a touch later serial number, with a black waffle dial.
What I find interesting is this is the first vintage Omega I have seen like mine, with the the double batons at 12, single batons at 3,6, and 9 and pointers at the rest of the spots.
Never had this one restored, been in a box since 1974 when my dad passed, except for one servicing.

In the 1950's there were loads of different Seamaster references and also loads of slightly differing dial designs. Put the two together and you have a miriad of possibilities..

...and that's what makes collecting 50's Omega very interesting and enjoyable.
 
autocalibre
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DaveK DaveK
I know it is a long time ago, but sorry to hear about your father. Wonderful to have his watch as a touchstone. It is the one in your avatar? It looks sweet. Can you post a pic that shows the hands better?
Here it is, the little white marks are on the crystal, far less obtrusive in real life, I think my photography is more to blame.
The hands, dial etc. look pretty good in real life.
Wish I had his military omega!
omega face.jpg
 
Archer
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padders padders
STS no doubt did what they could within the instructions you gave, asking them to re-fit the hands they removed 5 years ago strikes me as a fools errand. They will have either been binned or re-purposed by now and their warranty is 2 years so they have no obligation to help.

They should have given him back the hands they removed. Parts replaced should be returned to the owner, as they are the watch owner's property.
 
padders
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Archer Archer
They should have given him back the hands they removed. Parts replaced should be returned to the owner, as they are the watch owner's property.
Quite possibly but after 5 years there isn’t a lot that can be done about it now.
 
Archer
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padders padders
Quite possibly but after 5 years there isn’t a lot that can be done about it now.

My point is, the OP probably has the hands, so he can have them refitted if he likes. Clearly this will be something he has to pay for...
 
VetPsychWars
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What's done is done but I think you might look into getting these hands replaced... most Omega of this vintage, and as you see of the other examples in this thread, the hands stop at the minute track and do not overlap, so the hands you have overlapping the minute track look odd to me and perhaps not as original.

Tom
 
D
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Thanks Archer - I agree.

I've attached the items from the second service by Omega in Switzerland. I'm no expert on these, but can make out a set of hands (look the same as what STS fitted), some cogs, a glass case and seal, crown..........

Sorry about the poor image quality, but can anyone throw any light on the bits?

I think I need to speak to Simon Freese and explain about the hands and the comments posted on this forum in regards authenticity and originality. Surely STS / Omega recognise the need to maintain originality where asked and possible to do so?
 
IMAG0242.jpg IMAG0243.jpg
padders
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If you do so bear in mind Simon no longer works at STS and has set up on his own. I honestly think you are a hiding to nothing in contacting anyone. STS will say they fitted what was available and in any case the watch has seen a major Omega intervention since they had it apart, which rather makes their involvement null and void. From what you say Omega fitted the same parts as STS so what complaint can you possibly have? Or possibly STS left the hands and Omega changed them. Might be worth measuring the loose ones to check.
 
padders
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Do you have a picture of the watch before it went to STS? A lot of the opinions on this including mine are based on guesswork, that would help to ascertain if you have been disadvantaged or badly served.
 
D
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padders padders
Do you have a picture of the watch before it went to STS? A lot of the opinions on this including mine are based on guesswork, that would help to ascertain if you have been disadvantaged or badly served.
Hi padders.

I'm afraid I never had a picture of the watch before it went to STS.

I appreciate all of the comments thus far, and its a shame I hadn't come across the forum before.

I think it will be worth contacting both Simon and STS for their opinions. I've not got an axe to grind, just want to see if can establish what happened to hands, can original style be fitted (what would they have been) or whether style on the watch are original.

When you say measure the hands, what dimensions am I looking for?
 
padders
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The length of the spare hands would be worth looking at. As has already been noted, normally with an Omega dial with an inner track like yours, the minute hand normally only extends to the second ticks. It would be interesting to see if the other hands are shorter than those fitted. Of course if your dial originally had a wider spaced min track the longer hands may have been correct but most of those had the closer track. Here is an example of a fat lug bumper which is of a similar era to yours, just a little earlier at around 1950:

IMG_0491.jpg
 
D
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Thanks padders.

I contacted Simon Freese today (very nice chap) and we discussed the situation. Whilst more than happy to help, Simon explained that Kieren Oakman at STS would be better placed to help as STS might be able to source shorter replacement hands (ones that should be fitted to inner track watches). he did say however, that unlike today, production control or uniformity of production back when my watch would have been made were not the same, and it cuold be possible that the longer hands were fitted originally.

As per Simon I did contact Kieren today and he is going to look in to the matter. STS will have a picture of my watch before and after servicing, so he should hopefully be able to tell (depending upon the condition of the glass / dial. he is going to see if STS have any of the vintage shorter version hands and come back to me in the next few days.

Will keep you chaps posted of developments. Again, thanks to all who have helped thus far. 😀
 
D
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I'm attaching a picture of the watch when I originally came by it (its from STS before they undertook the service work in 2013). As you can see, nit in the best of states.

It would seem that Omega are out to create a monopoly for themselves, as Kieren has told me that because of the agreement they have with Omega (and if they break it they lose their accreditation) they are unable to work on any category 4 watches (like mine). He did tell me that the parts were sent back to Fraser Hart in Glasgow, so i have contacted them to see if they can return.

i have spoken with Simon Freese and he can help (if Fraser Hart unable to locate / return) to source vintage original short length hands (because he had to sign away his Omega accreditation when working for himself).

It seems to me that Omega are wanting us all to have to go to Switzerland for servicing / repairs of our vintage watches - disgraceful and expensive!!!
 
ST316638.jpg
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