Hello UG enthusiasts,
I came across this Polerouter for sale that the seller states as a Ref 204503/3 with everything original. The issue is that the case back has been polished to where the reference and serial numbers are no longer visible. Is there anyway to validate original vs Franken without a legible case back?

From the threads on this forum it appears that the dial font, features, and UG logo are appropriate for the 215 movement. The crown is signed, but the crystal is not. I wasn't sure if all Polerouter crystals were signed.

Anyway, some pics are below. Seller is asking 1600 euro. If anything I am just hoping to progress my education with this thread. Cheers!

 

Did you ask to see if the reference numbers are between the lugs? This reference should have a round loupe, but they were signed as well and hard to find.

 

Got it - so the crystal is a replacement then, thank you for that. Right as you were posting I found this old thread that I think was implying the same: https://omegaforums.net/threads/thi...r-date-in-old-polerouter-advertisement.33335/

I will check with the seller on the existence of a reference number between the lugs. Was that standard on PRs?

 

Bumpers had reference on the caseback. Microtors started having them between the lugs.

 

Depends on the case reference. The tables in the reference site state whether they are found on the case back or between the lugs.

For this reference, the 204503-3, I think you should find them between the lugs.
https://universalgenevepolerouter.com/reference-tables/reference-table-steel-gold-plated/

 

Thank you, the link you provided is fantastic! Seller said that there is no reference between the lugs. I guess polished off as well? Unfortunate.

UPDATE - the seller noted that the case size is 35mm (matches the linked referenced), but the lugs are 18.3mm which does not match the 19mm suggested in the reference.

 

I just double checked my own 204503-3 and the lug width is definitely 19mm (18.9-19.0).
The photos show it has the correct spacer for these references, though the clamps are sitting outside of it for some reason..? (they arent doing their job in that position, if you remove the stem the movement will just fall out...).
Id ask the seller to remeasure the lug widths with calipers, and ask for a photo...
And while youre at it, ask for a photo between the lugs for the serial/reference - it can be very hard to see sometimes.
https://universalgenevepolerouter.com/guide-to-locating-model-reference-and-serial-numbers/

 

Hi I'm always interested to learn so forgive my question.. But can you explain why the clamps are not placed properly? I looked at several pictures of this movement type but they alll seem to be placed this way.

 

Youre right! - I just checked... usually there is a slot inside the spacer/holder (like on 20360) that the claps sit inside and stop the movement from going either direction. In this case, the 204503 dial sits over one side and itself acts as a clamp for one direction.
So, the movement looks to be clamped correctly

 

My guess is that they didnt measured correctly the lugs. If that is a 18mm strap there is a little room to make it a 19mm lugs.

 

Correct, I confirmed that the strap in the picture is 18mm and clearly has some extra room. The picture below shows the caliper measurement but to be honest I am not able to comment on if the measurement is done properly or not. It does seem like the lugs are wider near the case and then taper down near the strap.

Unfortunately, pics between the lugs do not show a visible serial/ref number (at least that I can see).

Given the information that is available to me, how do you all view this watch? For context, I would have this in a rotation for daily wear, and if I could sell it down the road at cost then I'd be very pleased. Just not sure how I should judge the price given some of the uncertainty around the piece.

Thanks all for your contributions thus far, all very informative.

 

It is a nice one. I would not be put off by that although it is desirable to have a ref and serial. Is that the reference i can see on the third pic ?

 

Oh gosh I think you are right, good eye! I will ask for another shot of that area!

 

Definitely a reference nr 204503 - X , and a 7-digit serial below it.

 

Thanks all. Any comments on price? My initial reaction was that it seems high based on the condition of the case, but that is relative to the historical comps I've pulled from OF.

 

Some collectors don't like to buy watches without numbers. If you're concerned about re-sale, I'd pass on this one and buy the best possible example you can find.

 

That's good advice that I easily forget - I think I will wait for a better case.

 

We can see the numbers in one of the photos...
They look quite readable for this type of case considering they are usually worn off.
Probably just a matter of the right light/angle and a loupe.

 

I admit I haven't looked closely and just took the OP's and seller's word that the numbers were completely invisible.

 

I've updated the thread title since discovering that the numbers are faintly visible.

Even with them being visible, seems like the case isn't in that great of shape for the price. But, again I am new to the Polerouter market

I am curious if things cool off in a few months given the current global landscape, patience may be my friend here...