Have we finally gone over the edge?

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Also, where is all this "electricity" coming from to power these said "clean vehicles"?

It's a valid question certainly, and highlights the need to move away from fuels that pollute. Here in Ontario, Canada, the breakdown is shown below:



So most generation here is from non-GHG emitting sources. Coal generation was eliminated here in 2014.
 
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It's a valid question certainly, and highlights the need to move away from fuels that pollute. Here in Ontario, Canada, the breakdown is shown below:



So most generation here is from non-GHG emitting sources. Coal generation was eliminated here in 2014.
That's brilliant. Can't tell on my screen if the 24% is non contracted or water power. Also what is non contracted?

Found the US. Still heavy on coal.

 
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That's brilliant. Can't tell on my screen if the 24% is non contracted or water power. Also what is non contracted?

The 24.4% is water power (hydroelectricity). Here most people do not refer to it as electricity for the most part, or power, but "hydro" since it has made up a large part of our power supply for a very long time...Niagara Falls and all that. 😉

So you don't get an electricity bill, or a power bill, but a hydro bill.

From the Hydro-one site:

"Non-contracted represents a variety of fuel types that the IESO (Independent Electricity Systems Operator) is unable to categorize due to lack of information from local distribution companies."

So this represents 0.9% of supply.
 
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The 24.4% is water power (hydroelectricity). Here most people do not refer to it as electricity for the most part, or power, but "hydro" since it has made up a large part of our power supply for a very long time...Niagara Falls and all that. 😉

So you don't get an electricity bill, or a power bill, but a hydro bill.

From the Hydro-one site:

"Non-contracted represents a variety of fuel types that the IESO (Independent Electricity Systems Operator) is unable to categorize due to lack of information from local distribution companies."

So this represents 0.9% of supply.

Well, it looks like you guys are doing very very well holding your end of the bargain!
 
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In order to put a dent in the pollution problems related to climate change , 2 countries will need to participate. At this point I think the participation of the 2 is minimal.

3 studies concluding the problem of the 2.




Top 500 dirtiest cities by particulate concentration according WHO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-polluted_cities_by_particulate_matter_concentration

Top 50 polluted cities

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-most-polluted-cities-in-the-world-ranked/

Top 50 most polluted cities

https://www.iqair.com/us/world-most-polluted-cities
 
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In order to put a dent in the pollution problems related to climate change , 2 countries will need to participate. At this point I think the participation of the 2 is minimal.

3 studies concluding the problem of the 2.




Top 500 dirtiest cities by particulate concentration according WHO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-polluted_cities_by_particulate_matter_concentration

Top 50 polluted cities

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-most-polluted-cities-in-the-world-ranked/

Top 50 most polluted cities

https://www.iqair.com/us/world-most-polluted-cities

The two largest GHG emitting countries are China and the US. I agree that they are key to making any progress on this.
 
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Also, where is all this "electricity" coming from to power these said "clean vehicles"?


This was widely discussed on Nissam Leaf forums back in 2010. It's a valid question but is often used to support the kneejerk rejection of any use of electric vehicles. Not saying you are using it that way but it mostly gets brought up by opponents to electric vehicles.

I live in the Pacific NW with mainly hydro. Hydro has it's costs too, just not carbon. But the bennefits of electric vehicles are reduced when coal is used to generate the power. Does that mean we don't need or use electric vehicles? Or does it mean we move away from coal? Often depends on the bone you want to pick.

We have introduced a lot of solar and wind generation, but it hasn't been as supported as it could be. Given the rapid acceleration of our impact on the climate, we probably need nuclear. Not large plants but smaller dispersed plants. That's a whole other conversation.
 
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The "where is the electricity coming from" argument occurred to me long ago in a different regard. California has been setting their hills on fire with hot sagging transmission lines and/or undergoing rolling blackouts every summer when they all turn on the AC. How the heck are they going to charge millions more EVs, too?
 
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One area that makes pulling the fragile Earth from the possible brink is the aspiration to raise the standard of living in the two most populous countries of the world. China and India have made it a point to raise their standard of living. The path to this for the two is energy. Energy production and consumption makes the progress possible. Massive alternative energy production for billion plus populations would be astronomically expensive. So the thrust here is, how does the West convince a burgeoning middle class project in these two countries to convert? Green has it limits. Limit your countries prosperity for the population at the behest of those that have it. Gonna be tough road to hoe. Time will tell.
 
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The "where is the electricity coming from" argument occurred to me long ago in a different regard. California has been setting their hills on fire with hot sagging transmission lines and/or undergoing rolling blackouts every summer when they all turn on the AC. How the heck are they going to charge millions more EVs, too?

Part of that equation is that the regulators allowed deferred maintenance on their transmission system. There is more capacity in the system, although increased fires makes it even more difficult.
 
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The "where is the electricity coming from" argument occurred to me long ago in a different regard. California has been setting their hills on fire with hot sagging transmission lines and/or undergoing rolling blackouts every summer when they all turn on the AC. How the heck are they going to charge millions more EVs, too?

Very true. An already at the limit power grid in most cases. Putting horse before the cart. Resources should be targeted at power sources and the grid. Then build the cars.

Another conundrum.

“The amount of electricity fed into the electricity grid must always be equal to the amount of electricity consumed, otherwise there's a black-out.”

Dialing up and down solar and wind resources is much more complex and problematic. There would have to be a more controllable aspect to the input into the grid. Nuclear power seems the most sensible, just the leftover shit that is toxic for a couple billion years is what screws the pooch,
Edited:
 
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Very true. An already at the limit power grid in most cases. Putting horse before the cart. Resources should be targeted at power sources and the grid. Then build the cars...
,

The transmission gird is not designed independent of the load. Demand and supply are factors that determine lines.

Besides, the gird is way ahead of us and is factoring the need for electric vehicles. There is talk about using vehicles to store and generate electricity back into the grid when needed, as an alternative reserve.
 
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Dialing up and down solar and wind resources is much more complex and problematic. There would have to be a more controllable aspect to the input into the grid. Nuclear power seems the most sensible, just the leftover shit that is toxic for a couple billion years is what screws the pooch,

This is why there’s a ton of research and money going into energy storage right now. Everything from thermal, to mechanical, to hydroelectric, and of course batteries...
 
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Hi all,
I really am not trying to upset or freak anyone out. I was 61 in May this year yet can clearly remember in the late 70's when Greenpeace first started to warn the world on what was happening and saying we needed to make changes and fast to avoid a bleak future. Many just dismissed them as fear mongers and loonies whilst others were happy to declare
" Don't worry the scientist's and their brilliant minds will fix it"
Here we are some 40 odd years later and what exactly have the scientist's and the government's and the big corporation's of the world fixed? Absolutely nothing is the sad answer to that, the really sad thing is what we experience today is a consequence of what was done 10,20 or even 30 years earlier and as time progressed we polluted and destroyed more not less and are only now experiencing and paying for things done that long ago so there is more and worse still to come.
The simple fact is mans desire to make money outweighed everything and to be brutally honest IMHO it is now to late to do much of anything that can and will have an impact and the desired effect. Quite simply even if we could get all the Government's and corporation's of the world to start to change today it's just all to late now and by the way that's never going to happen either. The time to change and fix things is now long gone and it's not going to get better by planning changes coming in another 10-20 years.
I could clearly see what was happening back then in the 70's and made a conscious decision that I was not going to have children or get married and many thought I was nuts many may still do. But I am glad of my decisions as would hate to of brought kids into this FFFe'd up planet and society and have them have to face this new reality even my 90 year old mother now agrees with my decisions I made back then and thinks I was right after all.

Marc
 
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Just a side note here. Guess I’ll show my ignorance of Tesla battery packs that I had a few years ago.

This is a Tesla battery, there are over 7,000 in Tesla battery cell. I assumed the Tesla battery was a single large battery, not a mass of batteries. I always wondered, what happens if you put in one backwards. I know my flashlight won’t work.



I would rather have a couple kids than a Tesla. Kids are great. Stewards of our future
 
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Just a side note here. Guess I’ll show my ignorance of Tesla battery packs that I had a few years ago.

This is a Tesla battery, there are over 7,000 in Tesla battery cell. I assumed the Tesla battery was a single large battery, not a mass of batteries. I always wondered, what happens if you put in one backwards. I know my flashlight won’t work.



I would rather have a couple kids than a Tesla. Kids are great. Stewards of our future
You must not be familiar with the Mercedes Benz AA Class sedan. Silly spoof in 2016, still dumb in 2021 to expect batteries to replace ICE anytime soon.

(792) Mercedes trolluje branżę elektrycznych samochodów w SNL. - YouTube
 
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We didn't fix global warming or the increasing level of CO2 in the atmosphere, but the ozone layer is healing.
 
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Unless we become aware and take action... a yearly phenomenon ?
🤔
February 2022: Electric Vehicle caused fire onboard huge roll-on/roll-off cargo ship " Felicity Ace " , it sank to 3000 m (coast Portugal)
July 2023: Electric Vehicle caused fire onboard huge roll-on/roll-off cargo ship " Freemantle Highway " (coast the Netherlands) 1f914.png
...
Both ships carried 2800 fossil fuel cars and about 25 EV - Electric Vehicles, of which just one caught fire 😲
unquenchable fire
 
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I’ve given up my long only investment strategy. Now I’m buying and selling drugs to make as much money as quickly as I can and to decimate what’s left of our miserable species as quickly as I can.

Bring on the comets.
 
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I’ve given up my long only investment strategy. Now I’m buying and selling drugs to make as much money as quickly as I can and to decimate what’s left of our miserable species as quickly as I can.

Bring on the comets.

I liked it better when you were sarcastic and joking...