Have anyone else been forced to move their listings to the dealer section as an entusiast?

hejsam · Mar 6, 2021

STANDY
No one starts threads there is no Forum. 🤦

118.000 threads on the forum already, think there will be plenty of discussion anyways 😀

But dont think this is part of the topic so maybe we shall just leave it and agree to disagree!

STANDY · Mar 6, 2021

And that’s another on the list with that attitude......

amphib44 · Mar 6, 2021

I don’t want to keep this wheel spinning, but I am curious. What materially will change for you after being moved to the other section? Will it affect how you sell, or the terms of a sale?

cvalue13 · Mar 6, 2021

A point raised earlier but not yet clarified:

the 200 post threshold reached by how long ago?

OPs been a member for 1yr 9mo, but that’s not the relevant tenure to rate of sales

Instead rate of sales depends on when 200 posts were first achieved

Not to suggest that rate of sales is the end all consideration here. Instead just that “28 sales in 2 years” is being discussed a lot, but ...

Archer · Mar 6, 2021

cvalue13
A point raised earlier but not yet clarified:

the 200 post threshold reached by how long ago?

OPs been a member for 1yr 9mo, but that’s not the relevant tenure to rate of sales

Instead rate of sales depends on when 200 posts were first achieved

Not to suggest that rate of sales is the end all consideration here. Instead just that “28 sales in 2 years” is being discussed a lot, but ...

Had a very quick look at his profile, and based on all posts made, with 20 posts listed per page when I searched, looks like he reached 200 about a year ago...

JwRosenthal · Mar 6, 2021

amphib44
I don’t want to keep this wheel spinning, but I am curious. What materially will change for you after being moved to the other section? Will it affect how you sell, or the terms of a sale?

I think moving it to the dealer section has a “stigma” of being a professional dealer which does imply a different standard (not a “private” party enthusiast), even if it’s not clearly stated and just implied. It also decreases exposure as a sales post in watches for sale won’t pop up on the latest
stream and I’m sure many members here don’t look at the watches for sale nearly as often as the private watch sales.
I was contacted by a member who I am friendly with (and many of us are- he is well beloved), asking me if I had heard of a policy change because he received the same PM. He sells very inexpensive watches- just passing along stuff he is clearing out. Those types of listings- the vintage “bargains” don’t seem to fit with the watches for sale category as we know it since many listings there are newer or very expensive watches.
Like the OP, the member who contacted me wasn’t complaining, just wondering if he missed something in the sales rules or an announcement of changes. I think we all need to back away from the flogging and just see that some members are more vocal than others, it doesn’t mean they contribute less to the forum.
Frankly, @hejsam offers some lovely vintage watches for sale here- many at very reasonable prices. I see that as a contribution of sorts.
Moving forward I will be checking the watches for sale area more often. If there is a policy shift with volume, I think it would be helpful (if it hasn’t happened already) for the mod’s to amend the rules in the sales section to clarify that and educate the collective on the new standards.

sgrossma · Mar 6, 2021

I post in the dealer section even though I think of myself as more of an enthusiast than a dealer. But I do act as a “dealer” occasionally so that is where I belong. I am by no means a professional dealer as this is more of a passion and hobby for me than anything else.
In any event, I can assure you that it has not affected my sales. People looking to buy will find us, one way or another 😀

Dan S · Mar 6, 2021

I will have to remember to browse the Watches for Sale section more frequently now. I haven't typically spent much time there, since it seems dominated by dealers flipping new watches. However, I do browse watchrecon daily.

WhatYourWatchSay · Mar 6, 2021

dsio
It was a batch of 10 people that I PMed last night, many others have been asked in the past and there are often people unhappy when they get that PM. The watches for sale section is indexed fully by all of the relevant aggregators like WatchRecon and people browse the topic very frequently. It also does not carry the one post per day restriction that other topics carry.It really isn’t anything personal and it isn’t a punishment it’s just a categorisation based on an assessment of your history on the site along with several other factors.

Why couldn't you have explained it to me like that yesterday @dsio?

I was told to move to the dealer section as well and got into it with Ash. First off I didn't realize he was one of the owners and founders and second I didn't understand why he told me to move along. Now I get it.

His house, his rules.

cvalue13 · Mar 6, 2021

Archer
looks like he reached 200 about a year ago...

OP seems to have done quite a bit of good contributing to the forum with ~800 posts and >5K likes in less than 2 years

In 2 years, a lot of new members don’t even reach the 200 post threshold to sell

hope everyone feels good in the end wash

JwRosenthal · Mar 6, 2021

Dan S
... since it seems dominated by dealers flipping new watches.

I think this is the confusion. I don’t see it as a “complaint”, just a “really, I’m with them?”

WhatYourWatchSay · Mar 6, 2021

JwRosenthal
I think this is the confusion. I don’t see it as a “complaint”, just a “really, I’m with them?”

That was my feeling. I got my back up at the idea of my usually sub $500 CAD listings being posted with $20K Rolex watches.

And "dealer" carries such a dirty connotation!

JwRosenthal
If there is a policy shift with volume, I think it would be helpful (if it hasn’t happened already) for the mod’s to amend the rules in the sales section to clarify that and educate the collective on the new standards.

Agreed. I read the rules section before posting, whether sales or replies and when I don't understand I contact a mod. For members who take the time to read the rules it would be helpful to see what we can and cannot do.

cvalue13 · Mar 6, 2021

JwRosenthal
I think this is the confusion. I don’t see it as a “complaint”, just a “really, I’m with them?”

I guess there’s an imbedded question of whether profile of watches sold might rightfully lend mods toward categorizing one way or the other.

that said, I hope we all bare in mine that as with all processes the mods here are making administrative decisions using imperfect information to the best they can manage. No matter where they draw lines, people near the lines will wonder how they found themselves there and feel the line arbitrary. That’s just how administrative distinctions go

Spacefruit · Mar 6, 2021

As far as I am concerned the Mods here owe no one nothing.

If you don't like it, leave.

You can even start your own forum.

WhatYourWatchSay · Mar 6, 2021

cvalue13
I guess there’s an imbedded question of whether profile of watches sold might rightfully lend mods toward categorizing one way or the other.

On CWC the owner had a sub $1k forum and an over $1k forum. Recently it was changed to a sub $2k forum and the other forum for watches valued at over $2k.

It does make things easier.

Joe_A · Mar 6, 2021

I look forward to seeing watches for sale appear in my "Latest" feed which is the primary way I read and participate here. Like some others, I do not look at the "watches for sale" dealer section but seldom, perhaps once a month, I'd guess.

I understand the reasons for the distinction as have been discussed. I also appreciate that this is a privately owned site and what that status implies.

It would be helpful if the tipping point between being adjudged a private seller versus being regarded a dealer were defined and added to the rules. With criteria clearly stated, a person who may be regarded otherwise as an "a bit too overly enthusiastic seller" and who enjoys the privilege of posting in the private watch sales, can choose to stay at a listing volume below the triggering point . . . or not.

I can appreciate that perhaps six listings a year may be enough to move one from the amateur to professional category.

I'm guessing that receipt of an unanticipated or surprise instruction message to move over to the dealer section is part of the reason why someone may react with a bit of pain.

"Had I only known beforehand . . ."

Archer · Mar 6, 2021

JwRosenthal
If there is a policy shift with volume, I think it would be helpful (if it hasn’t happened already) for the mod’s to amend the rules in the sales section to clarify that and educate the collective on the new standards.

I don't think there is any "policy shift" going on here. As Ash has said, this isn't the first time people have been asked to move their sales due to the volume they sell.

I'm not sure the rules for this should be clearly defined, because this will lead to people listing one less watch than the rule allows so that they don't get moved. I also take it from Ash's post that volume isn't necessarily the only factor taken into account.

Some people don't want to be thought of as dealers, and yes I get that. To me if you are a high volume seller, you should be in the dealer section regardless if you are a professional dealer or not.

Dan S · Mar 6, 2021

Spacefruit
As far as I am concerned the Mods here owe no one nothing.

If you don't like it, leave.

You can even start your own forum.

I agree with the basic sentiment, but at the same time I hope that good contributors don't feel the need to leave over something like this. If someone who never contributes beyond sales listings wants to leave, I probably won't miss them. They can list their watches on WuS or IG, and if they have something interesting for sale, I will find it.

It seems to me that @dsio has been taking care of some deferred maintenance on the forum, cleaning up sticky threads, adding a Seiko sub-forum, etc. He has asked for feedback on some issues, but I don't see where he requested any on this topic. There are some growing pains, but I feel that I will get used to the changes. Thanks to the mods for allowing this discussion.

sgrossma · Mar 6, 2021

Of course it’s not up to me - but maybe a good solution (or my recommendation at least) would be that long term, no ‘for sale’ watches - private or not, be fed into the general “Latest” category. Then there will be almost no need for a distinction, or at least people will care less and this will barely even be a talking point.

People looking to buy a watch will go shopping in the relevant for sale sections and or use an aggregator, like WatchRecon.

When I comes here and click the “Latest”, I’m looking for interesting things to read and discussions on watch related topics. And simultaneous I regularly search WatchRecon for watches I’m interested in.

Joe_A · Mar 6, 2021

Suppose a person who is generally not seen as a commercial seller knew the volume trigger in advance and deliberately stayed below that volume number even though the person had potentially twice as many watches to sell . . .

What would be the harm?

Wouldn't it be likely that such a person would self-select, offering the best of the bunch or the watches adjudged more likely to appeal to members here?

Would such a listing activity be in conflict with the goals set by the owners for the two categories?