Grime on barrel

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I have an old Omega pocket watch that i inherited from my grandfather. Now I'm about to service it. I've disassembled and then cleaned the parts in isopropanol. But there is still grime in the barrel. I soaked it for 48 hours and used a toothbrush to brush it. As shown in the picture the grime is still there. And i don't have a ultrasonic cleaner either.

Anyone got i solution for this?

JcR7ycd
 
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Some solvents (One-Dip, for example), are useful only for removing residual lubricants which have migrated to places they shouldn’t be (hairsprings, for example). But they don’t work well for solidified ”gunk” such as you show in the mainspring barrel. There’s no substitute for good quality, all-purpose cleaner such as L & R mineral based watch cleaning solutions, and proper cleaning equipment. Not only that, these dip-type cleaners are not effective for removing less obvious solidified gunk on (for example) pivots and jewels. If you are going to venture into repairing of watches, it is vital that you learn proper procedures, and have access to the right materials and equipment. “Dip and swish” just doesn’t work.
 
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Some solvents (One-Dip, for example), are useful only for removing residual lubricants which have migrated to places they shouldn’t be (hairsprings, for example). But they don’t work well for solidified ”gunk” such as you show in the mainspring barrel. There’s no substitute for good quality, all-purpose cleaner such as L & R mineral based watch cleaning solutions, and proper cleaning equipment. Not only that, these dip-type cleaners are not effective for removing less obvious solidified gunk on (for example) pivots and jewels. If you are going to venture into repairing of watches, it is vital that you learn proper procedures, and have access to the right materials and equipment. “Dip and swish” just doesn’t work.
Would you recommend a ultrasonic cleaner with L&R then?
 
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Would you recommend a ultrasonic cleaner with L&R then?

As I said in my post, you will have little or no success in the repair of watches without the right materials, and the right equipment. You need to decide how far you hope to go in the repair of watches, and either do it, or back away from it. There is a LOT of learning and expense involved if you are going to do it right. Alcohol will NOT remove the contaminants found in watch movements, even with ultrasonics.
 
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As I said in my post, you will have little or no success in the repair of watches without the right materials, and the right equipment. You need to decide how far you hope to go in the repair of watches, and either do it, or back away from it. There is a LOT of learning and expense involved if you are going to do it right. Alcohol will NOT remove the contaminants found in watch movements, even with ultrasonics.
Hey, ease up a little! You sound like you're talking to a 12-year-old who tried to open a pocket watch with a butter knife.
 
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Hey, ease up a little! You sound like you're talking to a 12-year-old who tried to open a pocket watch with a butter knife.


Well then, what would your advice be to this poster, and how would you try to put the point across?
 
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Well then, what would your advice be to this poster, and how would you try to put the point across?
I'm not a watchmaker. If I were a watchmaker, and I thought XYZ Solvent would work, I'd say "You might try using some XYZ solvent." I would try to not be all negative and scolding: "You will have little or no success..." "You need to decide how far you hope to go..." "Alcohol will NOT remove..." "It is vital that you learn proper procedures..." etc. These are not helpful pieces of advice.
 
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As I said in my post, you will have little or no success in the repair of watches without the right materials, and the right equipment. You need to decide how far you hope to go in the repair of watches, and either do it, or back away from it. There is a LOT of learning and expense involved if you are going to do it right. Alcohol will NOT remove the contaminants found in watch movements, even with ultrasonics.
I know there is a lot to learn here. But I have patience and will.
 
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I'm not a watchmaker. If I were a watchmaker, and I thought XYZ Solvent would work, I'd say "You might try using some XYZ solvent." I would try to not be all negative and scolding: "You will have little or no success..." "You need to decide how far you hope to go..." "Alcohol will NOT remove..." "It is vital that you learn proper procedures..." etc. These are not helpful pieces of advice.
Tbh I dont think it was too harsh. It wasn't as though he was abusive, a little untactful maybe but tbh what I'd expect from a fairly elitist forum 😀
 
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Has anyone ever become a competent watch repair technician by learning on a forum such as this? I doubt it.
 
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I have an old Omega pocket watch that i inherited from my grandfather. Now I'm about to service it. I've disassembled and then cleaned the parts in isopropanol. But there is still grime in the barrel. I soaked it for 48 hours and used a toothbrush to brush it. As shown in the picture the grime is still there. And i don't have a ultrasonic cleaner either.

Anyone got i solution for this?

JcR7ycd


Before I had an ultrasonic and a watch cleaning machine I used brushes of different stiffness and readily available fluids for cleaning.

A small artists paint brush with the bristles cut to about 5mm is good for scrubbing without damaging. For mainspring barrels I used kerosine or WD40 as a cleaner and allowed the parts to soak overnight and then used brushes and toothpicks to remove the gunk.

The cleaning fluids must be rinsed off with denatured alcohol and then rinsed again in isopropyl alcohol.

I've found that even a professional US cleaner can't remove some of the dried grease in barrels, e.g.: the black stuff Seiko use needs to be mechanically removed.

Here is what I use when I get stubborn gunk.



And here's what I use for "normal" cleaning, however, you can still do a good job without ultrasonics and cleaning machines.

 
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Here is what I use when I get stubborn gunk.


Approx. outlay? Asking as I'm in a similar space to Mr Wolf and trying to work out the minimum investment to get a cleaning capability together an what I'm seeing is an expensive (albeit typical) set of cleaners based on what I've read before.
 
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Kerosine/WD40/IPA/denatured alcohol etc are cheap from the local hardware.
Brushes from Kmart/etc.
Jars/baskets, toothpicks/chopsticks from the kitchen.

So not a huge expense to get going.

Then an ultrasonic machine. About AUD$500 to $1000.
Then a cleaning machine. Mine was about AUD$4000, but you can get used ones, eBay etc.

Unless you are going to get into it big time and only do one or two watches a year, the simple setup is sufficient.
 
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Kerosine/WD40/IPA/denatured alcohol etc are cheap from the local hardware.
Brushes from Kmart/etc.
Jars/baskets, toothpicks/chopsticks from the kitchen.

So not a huge expense to get going.

Then an ultrasonic machine. About AUD$500 to $1000.
Then a cleaning machine. Mine was about AUD$4000, but you can get used ones, eBay etc.

Unless you are going to get into it big time and only do one or two watches a year, the simple setup is sufficient.

I'd be happy to invest $500. I think theres a level of investment I need to commit to, to make things viable (I have plenty of toys in garage that only come out once a year of similar price - table saw, table router etc.). Maybe happy is wrong term... willing is a better one. Presumably + fluids etc. would be keen to know what you'd recommend for the ultrasonic. I can see 5 jars in your pic, not sure how much of that is basically same but stages i.e. the murky one is used first but it's same as second, third and only ended up in that state as it takes the initial grime.
 
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I use L & R Extra Fine cleaning solution, and L & R Number 3 rinse. Clean in ultrasonic, two rinses, then centrifugal dry with heat. These cleaners and rinses run about $60.00 (Cdn.) each, for 3.8 litres, plus shipping. The Omega barrel in the subject watch might also need the application of a fibreglass brush to get it clean. Cheap little ultrasonic machines often available from drug stores don’t have the power to properly clean. Better to buy a new, small capacity, commercial ultrasonic, than to buy a used one. Used ones may still operate (sort of), but the transducers in them poop out after a lot of use, and the machine will be too feeble to do a job. Professional watch cleaning machines can clean centrifugally with ultrasonics, rinse the same way, several times, then centrifugal dry with heat. But you’ll spend thousands for one of these machines. I centrifugally rinse and heat dry in an antique L & R Master cleaning machine. One of these in good working order can often be had without major outlay. By the time you acquire screwdrivers, tweezers, oils, case tools, and all the other stuff, you’ve spent quite a bit of money. And this is before you acquire poising tools, truing calipers, movement holders, material trays, lathe and ancillary components, staking tool, a proper bench, lighting, watch repair text books, etc. etc. etc., you’ll need to be doing more than one or two watches a year.

There are many technicians on the MB who have very well equipped shops, using new, modern equipment, and may or may not do repairs professionally, and who would be able to give you an idea of the cost of setting up a basic shop.
 
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For old, gummy oil in barrels, pegwood usually takes it off. Wash afterwards in your preferred solvent, I use lighter fluid. It's more effective than brush.
 
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Forgot to mention, do not clean pallet forks or balance wheels in alcohol (denatured/IPA) as you risk softening the shellac that holds the pallet jewels and roller jewel. Many watches now do not use shellac, but unless you know what it is, assume shellac.

Use naphtha or benzine, or preferably, watch cleaning/rinse solution.

As to the cost of setting up a "hobby" workshop, you could probably do it for under USD$1000, depending on what level of "professional" tools and equipment you select.

This is what I use for basic cleaning, red arrows point to manual cleaning, green to US cleaning.



When the rinse in jar 3 looks dirty, it becomes rinse 2. The original rinse 2 is disposed of and the jar cleaned and filled with clean rinse and is nice and clean rinse 3 again.
As you can see, my cleaning jar is looking a bit dark, so it's time to dispose of the fluid and get fresh stuff.
I do the same cycle as the rinse. A clean jar for the fresh cleaner and the old cleaner is used for very dirty jobs until it too gets replaced.

It's not only buying these fluids you have to consider. There's also the issue of what to do with them when they are no longer suitable.

All of my used cleaning/rinse fluids are stored in original used containers and when full, my mate takes them to his depot where they have an oil/petrochemical disposal system.

Managing your little chemical farm is another task you get to manage 😁.

 
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Forgot to mention, do not clean pallet forks or balance wheels in alcohol (denatured/IPA) as you risk softening the shellac that holds the pallet jewels and roller jewel. Many watches now do not use shellac, but unless you know what it is, assume shellac

Yup aware of that, also things like keeping the balance and bridge on the main assembly to reduce risk of damage during cleaning in a cleaning machine etc. I've spent last 3-4 months watching a combination of youtube presentations of teardowns/rebuilds and also subscribed to a tutorial/course on watch repair by Mark Lovick, not sure if he's rated here (and have purposely not linked his site just in case it's against rules).

All in all, im taking my time before i get into this. Not just because i want to spend time building up the tools etc., and the investment involved but also to allow me to get some sample watches, broken or otherwise to practice on before i tear down a watch that needs to live afterwards. I'm very aware of all the extra tools i'll need over time, yes it's a lot and pushes the concept of 'hobby' out of the window in may aspects but at same time I don't mind the spend, theres plenty of hobbies that arnt cheap (I have a 4x4 rc car in garage that cost $700 that hasn't been used in close to a decade, ive invested in 3d printers over the years and discarded them, i had a bundle of arduino's that eventually ended up in the bin and i know people who shove more beer/wine down their throat on an annual basis than we're talking about here with no return other than a hangover...)
 
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In North America, the word benzine (spelled with an i) refers to naphtha. You’ll not likely find benzene (spelled with an e) because it is a hazardous substance. Just know the difference between the two chemicals. The OP has already used alcohol. It may be too late to warn him against using it!