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Great Grand Father’s Omega

EricJ
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i have a number of very old pocket watches from family members from Sweden. I am trying to identify my great grand fathers pocket watch. I am guessing it is from the late 1800’s. Attached are pictures of the watch.
The case is earlier then the published Omega serial numbers so not sure of it provenience but appreciate any assistance.

Thanks. Eric
 
6A2950C4-C8C3-43AE-AAFC-D0BF12C8EDE4.jpeg BA9AA36C-82FE-4084-BBE9-E38627A197D4.jpeg 85F06B32-87DE-4AED-B319-FFC4D5176645.jpeg C9E7FE79-5AA7-4223-BE4B-DCB54D406169.jpeg 8834A649-EC6F-4100-B25A-1EF843808C6E.jpeg F1E21E46-E1CC-4E34-B8C7-E06219794FB8.jpeg CAE15F25-E973-4ACF-9158-F0D56F2CDBD9.jpeg 5B1CCFB9-1ABA-4593-B5A8-5B8F0008203A.jpeg 7F383019-8CF6-4C47-96DA-F1FC607A8B32.jpeg C770E3D2-96E1-4B5F-A6EB-4E851943B956.jpeg 57FF3F28-CEA9-41F0-B76C-9CA17AAE0025.jpeg C3246453-4760-4D08-8D23-49D5D2D9426D.jpeg AC871661-130D-4793-8EE9-34804E5AE175.jpeg
Canuck
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IMO, this watch predates the adoption of the Omega name for the company founded by Louis Brandt in 1848. Brandt’s sons adopted the name Omega in 1903. This watch is a lot older than than that. Might it have been a product of Louis Brandt? Don’t know. I am suspicious of the Omega printed on the dial. I doubt it is Omega. If someone comes along that has evidence that it IS and Omega, i’ll retract my statement.
 
Dan S
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Canuck Canuck
I am suspicious of the Omega printed on the dial. I doubt it is Omega. If someone comes along that has evidence that it IS and Omega, i’ll retract my statement.

I agree. This movement looks somewhat Fontainemelon-ish with those finger bridges and straight-edged balance cock, but obviously other manufacturers used similar designs. Probably late 19th century as the OP guessed. The Omega PW movements I have seen generally have a single large wedge-shaped (sorry, not actually a great description of the shape) bridge plate.
Edited:
 
JimInOz
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Gurn Gurn
At least we know its "METAL"

The case is silver, as indicated by the hallmarks. The dust cover is probably brass so is marked "METAL" to indicate that it's a base metal as opposed to a noble metal.
 
EricJ
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I’m not sure if the origin of the Omega dial but my Grandmother has had this at least since the mid 60’s when I was a kid. Not sure when she got it from her father. She immigrated to the US in 1932.
 
JimInOz
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At first glance, with the Omega dial and the unusual movement one would think an early fake.

However, the pin set movement is of high quality and the case is 800 German silver. If it is an Omega case (doubtful) the serial number would put it at around 1918, much too late I think for that combination.

Maybe the dial of the original watch was damaged and replaced with the Omega dial and hands from a watchmakers salvage box.

While there are no marks on the movement to identify the maker, removal of the dial should show things like caliber, maker, serial number stamps and also show the setting works, which is like a fingerprint for watch movements.
 
EricJ
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JimInOz JimInOz
At first glance, with the Omega dial and the unusual movement one would think an early fake.

However, the pin set movement is of high quality and the case is 800 German silver. If it is an Omega case (doubtful) the serial number would put it at around 1918, much too late I think for that combination.

Maybe the dial of the original watch was damaged and replaced with the Omega dial and hands from a watchmakers salvage box.

While there are no marks on the movement to identify the maker, removal of the dial should show things like caliber, maker, serial number stamps and also show the setting works, which is like a fingerprint for watch movements.
 
EricJ
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Thanks for the advice Jim. I will look for a watchmaker to do this. I’m not Talented enough to do this but I am interested to find out more as it is a piece of my family history. I wouldn’t think someone would fake an Omega that long ago but it could have been repaired.
 
Dan S
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EricJ EricJ
Thanks for the advice Jim. I will look for a watchmaker to do this. I’m not Talented enough to do this but I am interested to find out more as it is a piece of my family history. I wouldn’t think someone would fake an Omega that long ago but it could have been repaired.

Watches were not disposable in the early 20th century, and pragmatic family members would have had parts replaced over time to keep the watch serviceable. This dial was likely put on this watch by an ancestor, and it represents your family history. If you choose to have a watchmaker service the watch so that you can use it, you might consider replacing the hands with something more appropriate, such as black spade and whip hands.
 
verithingeoff
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The hands are the same as on my 1911 Omega
Savonnette aussie-emoticon1%20copy.gif
s-l1600 (3) copy.jpg
 
s-l1600 (3) copy.jpg
Dan S
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verithingeoff verithingeoff
The hands are the same as on my 1911 Omega
Savonnette aussie-emoticon1%20copy.gif

Nice watch. Regarding hands for the OP's watch, check the majority of other examples and Omega pocket watch advertising. Especially with Roman numerals.

[Edit: Generally all three hands should be the same color. Does anybody know the name for the style of hands with the circles at the ends? Breguet?]
Edited:
 
JimInOz
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Dan S Dan S
Nice watch. Regarding hands for the OP's watch, check the majority of other examples and Omega pocket watch advertising. Especially with Roman numerals.

[Edit: Generally all three hands should be the same color. Does anybody know the name for the style of hands with the circles at the ends?]

The hands on the OPs watch are referred to by Omega as "Louis XV" hands.

Breguet style hands with the circle at the ends are called "Empire" style by Omega.
The style of hands is shown on the two watches below (Zenith and Tissot).

4PW2wBSH.JPG
 
JimInOz
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Regarding the mystery of the OPs watch movement.

I think it's one of Omega sister brands, before the company adopted the Omega name. The company made at least a dozen other brands like Patria, Labrador, Decimal, Regina and possibly the one of most interest here, Gurzelen.

The OPs movement is, I am sure, a Gurzelen, possibly a Caliber 19'''.

The Brandt family were expanding rapidly toward the end of the 1800s and it's possible that a watch from the Gurzelen factory received an Omega dial to use old movement stock or to supply to a specific market. As so much time has passed, I can only offer suggestions.

Here is a pic of a Gurzelen movement almost identical to the OPs.

Gcal19.JPG
 
JimInOz
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The Gurzelen movement is also shown in Brandt company (La Gènèrale) advertising in 1907 and 1908, which is after the Omega brand was established and leads me to the conclusion I stated above.

HLaG07.JPG Gu08.JPG
 
Dan S
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@JimInOz: Wow, great research and very plausible conclusions. It will be interesting to see the dial side, which should be more distinctive, as you mentioned above. These Lepine movements all look alike to me. 😀
 
bdp
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Great detective work by @JimInOz Well done. Its amazing what information is out there in the forum.
 
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