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Grand Seiko VS Rolex
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gmc1971
路Like all manner of things, nobody thinks it can happen until it does. No I do not own a GS (that I'm aware of) nor a Rolex. I do own a King Seiko thermo-compensated quartz.
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gmc1971
路The textured dials remind me of the work of Roger Smith's shop. However, for a 1 to 2k premium Rolex ought to be able to add some distinctive touches of their own.
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ulackfocus
路Question that comes to mind now; How much a "premium" would it cost Swiss Brands to create this level of detail...
Let's not talk about Patek or VC .. a Seiko/Grand Seiko equivalent, Rolex? Omega? Tudor?
The textured dials remind me of the work of Roger Smith's shop. However, for a 1 to 2k premium Rolex ought to be able to some distinctive touches of their own.
Patek or VC would have a rose engine turned dial, not a machine pressed or laser cut dial. That's a HUGE difference in price.
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gmc1971
路True. Just tossing numbers about.
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sdre
路Patek or VC would have a rose engine turned dial, not a machine pressed or laser cut dial. That's a HUGE difference in price.
Thats why I said, I won't bring up Patek or VC because they are really top tier in terms of branding and their costs would be incredible.
GS uses machine presses on their dials? I'm surprised, considering some of the minor details are hand-worked.
Again, I'm not coming from the angle of SWISS VS SEIKO, WHICH ONE IS SUCKIER/BETTER...
More of comparison, in terms of value for money perhaps? For the amount of intricate work put into a GS...
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Archer
路路Omega Qualified WatchmakerQuestion that comes to mind now; How much a "premium" would it cost Swiss Brands to create this level of detail...
Let's not talk about Patek or VC .. a Seiko/Grand Seiko equivalent, Rolex? Omega? Tudor?
If you mean details like highly polished and beveled markers and hands...
Or dials with various patterns...
All you need to do is visit your local Rolex AD and ask. Admittedly the photos from the Rolex dial catalogue pdf are not the best, but Rolex already makes dials like GS does, and has for decades.
GS uses machine presses on their dials? I'm surprised, considering some of the minor details are hand-worked.
Yes, these are stamped dials, not hand engraved or anything like that. People often refer to "hand-worked" details with GS, but there's nothing out of the ordinary with how the watches are produced really. If you look at this video, it's very typical of the manufacturing processes used at other manufacturers. The actual manufacturing is mostly automated, as it is in most watch factories, but of course there's some hand assembly and inspection.
When I think of hand finishing, I don't think of fly cutters being used to create striping on the movement, or mass media tumble finishing. In fact I would say the average Rolex movement is far more completely finished than what is shown here. For example you can see in a few places that there is very limited perlage applied to the main plate, so only where it's possibly visible to the owner, rather than finishing places where the owner will never see - a mark of a high end movement finish.
They certainly make great watches, but sometimes the hyperbole reaches mythical status...
Cheers, Al
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Riviera Paradise
路IMO Grand Seiko offer superior case and hand finishing at the US$3-6K price point. I agree with Al that their movement finishing is not spectacular in any way (from my layman POV) nor is their mechanical watch accuracy outstanding (compared to Omega, Rolex for example). The Spring Drive is a quartz regulated mechanical powered watch...an interesting innovation, but GS need to improve service support for this movement.
Rolex clearly wins on the bracelet comfort ergonomics and also warranty / service interval.
I think the main issue GS have is that the majority of their case designs are a just bit boring and don't have a unique design identity. Casio has the G-Shock square, JLC has the Reverso, Rolex has the coke bottle curves on the Oyster Perpetual, Omega has twisted lugs, AP has the Royal Oak etc. GS seems to have middle-of-the-road case designs and bracelets..."Toyota" functional design.
I think many on the OF will find the quartz GS below ugly, but right now this the only GS model I would consider buying. The angular case, bracelet integration is "quirky" (Al 馃槈馃榿) and uniquely Japanese. In South America there are no Grand Seiko service centers, so this restricts me to only considering GS quartz watches. The only downside for this watch is that it is Japanese market only version at the moment, and I really do not want to pull the trigger without seeing it live...so I will have to wait for a future Tokyo business trip visit馃榾
Rolex clearly wins on the bracelet comfort ergonomics and also warranty / service interval.
I think the main issue GS have is that the majority of their case designs are a just bit boring and don't have a unique design identity. Casio has the G-Shock square, JLC has the Reverso, Rolex has the coke bottle curves on the Oyster Perpetual, Omega has twisted lugs, AP has the Royal Oak etc. GS seems to have middle-of-the-road case designs and bracelets..."Toyota" functional design.
I think many on the OF will find the quartz GS below ugly, but right now this the only GS model I would consider buying. The angular case, bracelet integration is "quirky" (Al 馃槈馃榿) and uniquely Japanese. In South America there are no Grand Seiko service centers, so this restricts me to only considering GS quartz watches. The only downside for this watch is that it is Japanese market only version at the moment, and I really do not want to pull the trigger without seeing it live...so I will have to wait for a future Tokyo business trip visit馃榾
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Larry S
路路Color Commentator for the Hyperbole.Rolex has spent years putting out a high quality product at an aspirational but not absurd price point and making incremental improvements to their line. They are also superb marketers who have built one of the most valuable brands in the world. (It鈥檚 not me saying this. They appear on many publications top brand lists). GS/Credor also puts out a superb product but the go to market strategy feels unfocused to me. Couple that with the broad product line that Seiko has they are never going to command the premium that Rolex enjoys. Good move on a stand alone brand. They need now to improve their spotty dealer and support network. They also need tear a page out of the Rolex playbook on PR, Sponsorships, Advertising and earned media.
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Riviera Paradise
路Good points @Larry S
Agreed that stand alone brand was a vital move, and indeed it does need to be communicated downstream across the sales channel. The Seiko boutiques are selling Seiko divers and Grand Seikos together. In NYC Madison Avenue, their boutique should be exclusive to Grand Seiko and Credor and transmit a specific high end marketing message focused on Japanese craftsmanship.
They need to start working with western brand management companies outside of the Asian market. Right now they are a niche / WIS product. Look at their recent Basel presentations...mostly non-native English/French speakers with poor communication.
Heck, look at what Bremont have managed to achieve with a small marketing budget and clearly inferior watches...I think Grand Seiko could challenge IWC/JLC in global market share if the Seiko Mothership invested in a more aggressive marketing, sales and distribution strategy. For a start they should be willing to invest in selling ALL the Grand Seiko product range globally and move away from the JDM version restrictions馃榾
Agreed that stand alone brand was a vital move, and indeed it does need to be communicated downstream across the sales channel. The Seiko boutiques are selling Seiko divers and Grand Seikos together. In NYC Madison Avenue, their boutique should be exclusive to Grand Seiko and Credor and transmit a specific high end marketing message focused on Japanese craftsmanship.
They need to start working with western brand management companies outside of the Asian market. Right now they are a niche / WIS product. Look at their recent Basel presentations...mostly non-native English/French speakers with poor communication.
Heck, look at what Bremont have managed to achieve with a small marketing budget and clearly inferior watches...I think Grand Seiko could challenge IWC/JLC in global market share if the Seiko Mothership invested in a more aggressive marketing, sales and distribution strategy. For a start they should be willing to invest in selling ALL the Grand Seiko product range globally and move away from the JDM version restrictions馃榾
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