Grail watch showdown

[watch_my_six]

Which of the following pieces would you rather own? The SpeedyMoon 345.0809, or the Zenith El Primero A386? All thoughts/comments/perspectives/reasons are welcome! E.g. how much the price or condition might matter, etc.

Edited: Fri. 8:10am

 

[Scarecrow Boat]

Speedy Moon but only with the Smiley Moon

 

[watch_my_six]

Scarecrow Boat

Speedy Moon but only with the Smiley Moon

Ha so if not the SmileyMoon, then the El Primero?

 

[Evitzee]

That particular Zenith doesn't do anything for me. The moonphase Speedmaster is overlooked by collectors for some reason, so that would be my pick.

 

[watch_my_six]

Evitzee

That particular Zenith doesn't do anything for me. The moonphase Speedmaster is overlooked by collectors for some reason, so that would be my pick.

Oh how come that particular El Primero doesn’t do anything for you? (I thought it looked pretty good but am admittedly relatively new to vintage El Primeros)...

Edited: Fri. 8:35am

 

[Gabguzro]

Between those two, I would get the Zenith. I like moonphases though, so I would get one later 😁

 

[Fatcat]

Get both if you can , 2 good choices difficult to choose

 

[MtnMarine]

I much prefer the Speedy.

 

[dsio]

I love the Zenith, have one myself and it’s a very special piece, one of the greatest Zeniths of all time and a historically important piece.

 

[watch_my_six]

Gabguzro

Between those two, I would get the Zenith. I like moonphases though, so I would get one later 😁

Fatcat

Get both if you can , 2 good choices difficult to choose

Haha, to make things more concrete, here is my conundrum: I was able to acquire the SpeedyMoon a couple of months ago for around $5k less than market value, but it was somewhat of a spontaneous purchase since it wasn't a reference I'd necessarily been looking for for a long time, but it was too good of a deal to pass up on. I haven't been able to wear it much yet since it's still getting serviced, so I'm not sure yet how much I will Iove it long term, but I do definitely like it a lot, enough to have prompted me to sell my 145.012-67 so as to not have two twisted lug moonwatches (my idea of being "reasonable" 😂). In terms of other Speedies in my collection, I do also have a Speedmaster 57 Trilogy (which I'm putting a 321 into so that I can still have a 321 in my collection 🤪) and a Speedmaster Reduced (which I'm putting the Marui panda dial on, just for fun), and then I'm also building a 105.012-65 (to replace my 145.012 and be the 321 donor for my 57). 😮‍💨

In terms of El Primeros, I currently have the Chronomaster Original Hodinkee salmon dial re-edition, which I do also really like and would normally keep except I've also been using it in-part to assess how much I might like a vintage A386, which I've also been thinking about for quite some time, but I would only keep one of those two. Coincidentally, vintage A386s currently cost around $5k more than SpeedyMoons.

SO, I may have the opportunity to trade in my SpeedyMoon (at market value) + another ~$5k for the A386 pictured, which would essentially transfer my ~$5k SpeedyMoon profit to be able to get the A386 for ~$5k less than it's current market value. Of course I'd like to keep/have both, but unfortunately it's just too cost prohibitive at the moment 😭. I could also just do nothing for the time being and enjoy the SpeedyMoon and make the decision later, but even though there were more A386s produced, there seem to be fewer available in good condition compared to the SpeedyMoons (which makes sense since they're 15 years older). And even though A386 prices have seemed relatively stable for the past few years, I don't think that's necessarily been the case for the best condition examples. Similarly though, SpeedyMoon prices have approximately doubled over the last 5 years...

More opinions welcome!

 

[Zman4eva]

SpeedyMoon for sure.

I opted for the modern version but nothing beats that vintage charm.

 

[Gabguzro]

watch_my_six

Haha, to make things more concrete, here is my conundrum: I was able to acquire the SpeedyMoon a couple of months ago for around $5k less than market value, but it was somewhat of a spontaneous purchase since it wasn't a reference I'd necessarily been looking for for a long time, but it was too good of a deal to pass up on. I haven't been able to wear it much yet since it's still getting serviced, so I'm not sure yet how much I will Iove it long term, but I do definitely like it a lot, enough to have prompted me to sell my 145.012-67 so as to not have two twisted lug moonwatches (my idea of being "reasonable" 😂). In terms of other Speedies in my collection, I do also have a Speedmaster 57 Trilogy (which I'm putting a 321 into so that I can still have a 321 in my collection 🤪) and a Speedmaster Reduced (which I'm putting the Marui panda dial on, just for fun), and then I'm also building a 105.012-65 (to replace my 145.012 and be the 321 donor for my 57). 😮‍💨

In terms of El Primeros, I currently have the Chronomaster Original Hodinkee salmon dial re-edition, which I do also really like and would normally keep except I've also been using it in-part to assess how much I might like a vintage A386, which I've also been thinking about for quite some time, but I would only keep one of those two. Coincidentally, vintage A386s currently cost around $5k more than SpeedyMoons.

SO, I may have the opportunity to trade in my SpeedyMoon (at market value) + another ~$5k for the A386 pictured, which would essentially transfer my ~$5k SpeedyMoon profit to be able to get the A386 for ~$5k less than it's current market value. Of course I'd like to keep/have both, but unfortunately it's just too cost prohibitive at the moment 😭. I could also just do nothing for the time being and enjoy the SpeedyMoon and make the decision later, but even though there were more A386s produced, there seem to be fewer available in good condition compared to the SpeedyMoons (which makes sense since they're 15 years older). And even though A386 prices have seemed relatively stable for the past few years, I don't think that's necessarily been the case for the best condition examples. Similarly though, SpeedyMoon prices have approximately doubled over the last 5 years...

More opinions welcome!

I understand now, tough choice.

In your position, I would wait for the SpeedyMoon to return from service and enjoy it along the salmon Chronomaster.

 

[td69]

Tough call, but I'd choose A386 only if it comes with the original ladder GF bracelet and correct "ZJ" end links.

 

[watch_my_six]

td69

Tough call, but I'd choose A386 only if it comes with the original ladder GF bracelet and correct "ZJ" end links.

Hm, the original example I posted does not have the bracelet (but it does have an extract from the archives, for whatever that's worth). This other example, however, does have the original bracelet/links, and is about the same price, but the dial/hands don't appear quite as nice, right? Would you still go for it over the first one? And how much are the bracelet/links worth on their own?

 

[td69]

watch_my_six

Hm, the original example I posted does not have the bracelet (but it does have an extract from the archives, for whatever that's worth). This other example, however, does have the original bracelet/links, and is about the same price, but the dial/hands don't appear quite as nice, right? Would you still go for it over the first one? And how much are the bracelet/links worth on their own?

Worth at least a couple thousand dollars I'd say. The problem is they are so rare that being able to source them could take years, hence I'd rather acquire a watch that comes with them. This 2nd A386 has a different dial style (A off H) than the first (A under H) just so you know. Based on the two photos, it's hard to tell which one has better dial/hand condition.

 

[steversaurus]

I'd go A386. It's not only a classic, but I still think they're underrated compared to the other vintage chronographs of the era.

 

[watch_my_six]

td69

Worth at least a couple thousand dollars I'd say. The problem is they are so rare that being able to source them could take years, hence I'd rather acquire a watch that comes with them. This 2nd A386 has a different dial style (A off H) than the first (A under H) just so you know. Based on the two photos, it's hard to tell which one has better dial/hand condition.

Right, the second example is a Mk2 vs. the first is a Mk3, right? Here are some closer shots of both dials/hands. Do they show anything any better to you?

Example #1


Example #2



To me, the second example appears to have more "debris" (best case) or "degradation" (worse case) on the 1/10th of a second track, as well as on the white part of the dial itself and the hands. And while it appears that at least some of what looks like it's on the 1/10th of a second track is actually rather likely on the crystal, there does still seem to be more than with the first example.

 

[timoss]

I vote for the 386. It’s a classic with real historical importance. The SpeedyMoon is just another nice watch. However, sounds like you have time to wear the Speedy for awhile and see how it grabs you. It might become an obvious choice with some wrist time.

 

[NGO1]

Zenith here too. It’s visually more interesting and pleasing to my eyes. I’m bias here, as I am looking to add my first Zenith.

 

[watch_my_six]

timoss

I vote for the 386. It’s a classic with real historical importance. The SpeedyMoon is just another nice watch. However, sounds like you have time to wear the Speedy for awhile and see how it grabs you. It might become an obvious choice with some wrist time.

NGO1

Zenith here too. It’s visually more interesting and pleasing to my eyes. I’m bias here, as I am looking to add my first Zenith.

Which one of the two 386s is stronger overall to you? (Obviously the second example has the bracelet, which is nice, but it's not that important to me personally, as I wouldn't anticipate wearing it on the bracelet much. So the question is, is the condition of the second as good at the first, so that I wouldn't be giving anything up in terms of condition to get the bracelet)...