French Omegas and their numbers. Looking for info

TNTwatch · Feb 23, 2017

gatorcpa
No.

Back then every distributor used their own reference number system that did not necessarily match up with what is used today on the Omega Vintage Database. I have no clue why they did that.

http://www.old-omegas.com/catde59.html

I believe the above catalog page is Swiss German and it doesn't use the same reference numbers for the Railmaster and Ranchero that are engraved on case backs.

If a watchmaker needed case parts back then, they ordered from their local distributor using local reference numbers. If a part was in stock, great. If not, then the distributor contacted Omega who was able to "translate" the request based on country of origin.

Someone gave me this Swedish catalog for ordering Omega crystals some years ago.

http://s7.photobucket.com/user/gatorcpa/library/Watch Photos/Omega Crystals List - Swedish

While the case references (and matching calibers 😀) are the standard ones we see engraved inside Omega watches, the crystals are ordered by a separate numbering system unique to Sweden.

My guess is that as Omega began taking over these local distribution networks in the 1970's, they went to a more centralized and uniform method of model identification for ordering spare parts.

Take care,
gatorcpa

The numbers he asked about are "case serial numbers" and have no reference numbers engraved or attached to the watch anywhere or anymore. Not just the French good cases, but millions of old Swiss cases also had no reference numbers yet. These case serial numbers were documented for warranty purposes and would be the numbers to used for spare parts back then.

The reference numbers in those brochures are sale/marketing reference numbers, and yes they need to be translated to the reference numbers that were engraved on the caseback. Most of the time though, this translation is not likely needed because to repair or service the watch, the caseback must be readily available while the sales/warranty papers may not.

Interestingly for @mac_omega, that Swedish catalog was for or from 1980/1981 and it already says "reference numbers" for those 4 digits "case numbers".

Edit: changed the years from 60/61 to 80/81.

Archer · Feb 23, 2017

As I've explained to mac_omega previously, at one time Omega used the case number as the watch reference. But as we all know that number doesn't tell us case material, dial, hands, and a host of other information. The modern reference numbers include every detail about the watch, and even a small difference will mean a different reference number. For example ref. 3820526 is an automatic Speedmaster commonly called a "Mk. 40" on a leather strap. But ref. 35205300 is the exact same watch head (same dial, case, hands, movement, etc.) but on a bracelet.

In my view to keep calling the case number (which is reality is only a partial case number in most instances) the reference number is stubborn and unproductive in my view, even if it is "correct" in a pedantic kind of way...this thread illustrates the problem with doing this very well. It only adds to confusion, rather than clarity.

And I'll confirm that using a case serial number as noted on the French case at the start of this thread, will not get you any information on case parts. Tried using it in every way possible on the Extranet and it simply came up with "no results found" as I expected it would.

Cheers, Al

TNTwatch · Feb 23, 2017

Archer
As I've explained to mac_omega previously, at one time Omega used the case number as the watch reference. But as we all know that number doesn't tell us case material, dial, hands, and a host of other information. The modern reference numbers include every detail about the watch, and even a small difference will mean a different reference number. For example ref. 3820526 is an automatic Speedmaster commonly called a "Mk. 40" on a leather strap. But ref. 35205300 is the exact same watch head (same dial, case, hands, movement, etc.) but on a bracelet.

In my view to keep calling the case number (which is reality is only a partial case number in most instances) the reference number is stubborn and unproductive in my view, even if it is "correct" in a pedantic kind of way...this thread illustrates the problem with doing this very well. It only adds to confusion, rather than clarity.

Looks like you invented the so-called "case numbers" because you have the advantage of having the current modern reference number system. If you put your shoes in the era before the current one, that system (the 6/7 digit plus metal codes) would be the most advanced and I bet you would call them reference numbers. And with the way you view this, you would call the 4 or 5 digit system the "case numbers".

In fact, from the 4 digits to the current one, they are all different reference number systems, that have evolved over time from simple to complicated, for managing parts catalogues. Just because the earlier systems were simpler and more limited doesn't mean they are not a reference systems. Having the advantage of a more advanced system to dismiss the earlier ones as "case numbers" is strenuous at best.

Let me post the images below to say I did not invent the reference numbers. Omega has called them reference numbers since they created them. I prefer to just leave it as that. Calling others "pedantic" based on self invented "case numbers" is just insulting.

Archer · Feb 23, 2017

TNTwatch
Looks like you invented the so-called "case numbers" because you have the advantage of having the current modern reference number system. If you put your shoes in the era before the current one, that system (the 6/7 digit plus metal codes) would be the most advanced and I bet you would call them reference numbers. And with the way you view this, you would call the 4 or 5 digit system the "case numbers".

In fact, from the 4 digits to the current one, they are all different reference number systems, that have evolved over time from simple to complicated, for managing parts catalogues.

Let me post the images below to say I did not invent the reference numbers. Omega has called them reference numbers since they created them. I prefer to just leave it as that. Calling others "pedantic" based on self invented "case numbers" is just insulting.

Yeah, that's right...I invented these all on my own...

🤨🤨🤨🤨

François Pépin · Feb 23, 2017

Thanks Al!

As far as I am concerned, everything is clear now - except the fact that some French gold cases have a case number around 400 000, but it is probably a particular numbering. The meaning of the case numbers in French gold cases in now pretty clear: they are case serial numbers and cannot be used to order parts.

@TNTwatch : I understand you can call that model numbers, reference numbers (Omega does and I used to!), but it is weird for me because you were one of the first in this topic who told us (and you were right) that we should be more accurate. I also understand that there were case numbers that could be used as a way of referencing a watch for ordering case parts, but it is pretty clear that they were not the same as the modern reference numbers - McOmega and Al explained that clearly. And it is pretty clear as well that the case numbers we were talking at the begining (French gold case case numbers) are not at all like those model numbers.

I see no point to continue the semantic discussion about the case/model/old reference number. All this discussion shows that we should chose the most accurate terms when discussing this topic. It will avoid confusion.

Let's consider this was a fruitfull discussion even if we went a little bit around in circles.

French Omegas and their numbers. Looking for info

TNTwatch

Archer

TNTwatch

Archer

François Pépin

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