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For the Hi-Fi enthusiasts among us...

Engee
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OK, so although this is a watch collectors' forum I hope to get some help from the Hi-Fi enthusiasts here.

I'm thinking about upgrading my turntable. I like the Linn Sondek LP12 - it's a classic, but buying used is a minefield because as a modular system you need to know what's under the hood. Prices appear to range from +/- £800 for complete set up to several £k.

So my question is, what are the questions I need to ask in order to assess whether a turntable I see is an acceptable price? The motor, tonearm and cartridge are as far as I've got. Are there other components that will have an impact on the price?

Thanks for any help.
 
arturo7
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mcgyver mcgyver
Thank you!

Sure!

Frame is MDF, fronts with 3mm black acrylic.



Mid/tweeter panel is 3µm Mylar, bass is 6µm. Audiotrasformers are toroid for mid/high and oil ignition transformers for the bass. 😀
Passive filtering before the transformer setup, 5kV powersupply, auto swith on by the audio signal.





Both panels playing together (bump at 50Hz tweeked after this picture - in PreAmp)

Awesome sauce!

I didn't realize you can DIY electrostats.
 
30t1
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mcgyver mcgyver
I hope to find time to start building audio gear again, miss my DIY setup - now in storage! 🙁

images
- DIY fullrange ESLs
- DIY PreAmp with dipole compensation
- DIY 15W call-A amp/GainClone(when used with TV)

-One you go flat, you'll never go back! 😀
Ha I was all excited about, my horn plans also my infinity restoration. I’m not worthy.
 
vibe
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T Tx3double
What are some of the best vintage speakers out there, klipsch like but not klipsch, from the 70s and even 80s?
Klipsch are actually not that great. I have lived with Haresys and LaScalas and they are actually quite terrible. I have Harbeths currently. it you must have efficient speakers or horns, look to Altec or JBL which have MUCH better quality drivers. But in my own path I have found that there are many drawbacks to high efficiency speakers and those constraints are not worthwhile for me!
 
Deafboy
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vibe vibe
But in my own path I have found that there are many drawbacks to high efficiency speakers and those constraints are not worthwhile for me!
Curious to peer into your thoughts; care to elaborate?
 
vibe
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To me, klipsch sound very colored and harsh. Me and everybody else I know who has had them spend a fortune on gear to make them hopefully sound better. I tried Scott 222 and 299C, Heathkit el84 mono blocks, Threshold SA 3.9e, cairn class a integrated, etc. have a buddy with k-Horns and he has a Mac system (225), a bottle head 300b setup, and Scott 299b and they are unlistenable to me. They are also huge and ugly!
 
Archer
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sxl2004 sxl2004
I believe “to me” is the operative phrase here.

It always is with audio.

For example, when people talk about a system sounding "warm" to me that usually means "muddy". It's all about what you personally value in sound reproduction.
 
arturo7
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Archer Archer
It's all about what you personally value in sound reproduction.

Not only what you personally value, but also what your ears are used to listening to.

If someone always cranks their sub, any system without a cranked sub, or heaven forbid, no sub, will sound poor.
 
Evitzee
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Those that are old enough to remember Stereo Review magazine in the 1970's would remember the Hirsch-Houck Lab reviews of the time. Led by Julian Hirsch, an electrical engineer, they would test and review all sorts of audio gear available including electronics, turntables and speakers. But for the electronic gear (receivers, amplifiers, tuners) they really relied on the raw lab specs and generally used the rule that "if it measured good, it sounded good". This was during the time when solid state gear had pretty much taken over from tube designs. Of course gear can measure the same and sound remarkably different, but in that era this wasn't appreciated by many people. The same thing happened with the introduction of the compact disc in the early 80's, 'it's just 1's and 0's, every player sounds the same'. We now appreciate that measurements don't tell the whole story, it comes down to how the gear sounds to the listener, and every listener has a different idea of what sounds good or is an accurate reproduction of the performance. Reviews, or opinions, can help guide us but glowing reviews really don't tell us much when it comes to how our own ears perceive sound reproduction.
Edited:
 
Archer
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arturo7 arturo7
Not only what you personally value, but also what your ears are used to listening to.

If someone always cranks their sub, any system without a cranked sub, or heaven forbid, no sub, will sound poor.

Yes, this goes hand in hand with what you are used to...

Evitzee Evitzee
Those that are old enough to remember Stereo Review magazine in the 1970's would remember the Hirsch-Houck Lab reviews of the time. Led by Julian Hirsch, an electrical engineer, they would test and review all sorts of audio gear available including electronics, turntables and speakers. But for the electronic gear (receivers, amplifiers, tuners) they really relied on the raw lab specs and generally used the rule that "if it measured good, it sounded good". This was during the time when solid state gear had pretty much taken over from tube designs. Of course gear can measure the same and sound remarkably different, but in that era this wasn't appreciated by many people. The same thing happened with the introduction of the compact disc in the early 80's, 'it's just 1's and 0's, every player sounds the same'. We now appreciate that measurements don't tell the whole story, it comes down to how the gear sounds to the listener, and every listener has a different idea of what sounds good or is an accurate reproduction of the performance. Reviews, or opinions, can help guide us but glowing reviews really don't tell us much when it comes to how our own ears perceive sound reproduction.

I probably have a box full of these in the basement. Every month I would dutifully fallout the little card to ask the companies for information on the products I was interested in, and usually months later it would show up in the mail from far flung places.

I know for a fact I have the copy that announces the first CD...
 
vibe
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Yes, audio gear is subjective on many levels and the audio nut has to decide for themselves whether they like the gear. That is precisely why I’ve gone through so much gear until I found what clicks with me. And gave me plenty of opinions! I have been flipping gear since I was 15 and I am 45 now. I found that I value PRaT and tonal accuracy, smooth highs. I’ve been happy for about 12 years and have only made minor changes in my systems since

I believe high-efficiency is a worldview with so many constraints on it that it leads to obvious drawbacks. so for critical listening i’d look elsewhere, but they definitely rock the party as long as they don’t sound harsh. Some companies can pull it off better than others, but Classic Klipsch, especially at the prices they go for these days, have really obvious flaws. The woofers are allowed to play too high a frequency, the squawkers go to too low of a frequency, and the tweeters barely go over 16000 Hz. All these add resonances that sound harsh and unnatural. There are some good horns: out there but they are even uglier: stephens trusonic coaxi, altec a7, JBL.
 
rob#1
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When I worked in high end hi fi many years ago we would only stock products that sounded good when compared to others, without any consideration of the brand, specifications, measurements, reviews, etc. However, even with a group selecting products, it was and always would be subjective. That’s why we always asked clients to bring in a selection of their own music, and if possible other components of their own system, so that we could demonstrate equipment effectively.

I recall being flown with a colleague to a major hi fi manufacturer’s factory to be shown around, and wined and dined, to encourage us to stock their product. However, during a comparison test of CD players their model didn’t play back a hi hat cymbal sound that was clearly audible on our ‘reference’ CD player - their explanation was that their product was designed to reproduce the ‘whole sound’ of the music rather than individual items. Our opinion was that if the sound was on the recording then we certainly wanted to hear it! Suffice to say that their CD player didn’t make the grade...

Also, to us JBL was an acronym for Just Bloody Loud 😗
 
S
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That setup looks really interesting. Can you tell us more about the DIY ESLs and show a bigger picture?
 
S
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Interesting comment about cranked subs. I don't have a sub on my system and feel no need for one as it will reproduce bottom organ notes realistically with the main speakers. Fairly recently I upgrade the car to a Volvo 2018 V60 with a highly rated stereo system. Set as standard I found the stereo had an annoying thumping bass. I went into the setup and lowered the sub level to what I felt was a more realistic sound. Much better. I guess Volvo just have to cater for the sub crankers. You know the sort of car that seems to bounce down the road with a one note farting sound.
 
ckhaing
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Evitzee Evitzee
... the introduction of the compact disc in the early 80's, 'it's just 1's and 0's, every player sounds the same'. .....
... how our own ears perceive sound reproduction ....

i have noticed several cd / digital players that cannot properly reproduce the high frequency sound of Brian May playing the strings of his guitar on the other side of the bridge, imitates a bell tree during the line "sends shivers down my spine" in Bohemian Rhapsody. Many CD players sounded harsh at that part (harmonic distortions?).

FM stations are usually good at reproducing that particular sound though, maybe from Studer 731 player?
 
Archer
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rob#1 rob#1
When I worked in high end hi fi many years ago we would only stock products that sounded good when compared to others, without any consideration of the brand, specifications, measurements, reviews, etc. However, even with a group selecting products, it was and always would be subjective. That’s why we always asked clients to bring in a selection of their own music, and if possible other components of their own system, so that we could demonstrate equipment effectively.

The shop I've dealt with for 30 years always recommended bringing your own music, and I always did. At least until streaming started up and then that wasn't necessary really.

They never asked me to bring in my own equipment, but at first asked me what my existing set-up was, and then brought in components that were as close as they had to the listening room, and then brought in the thing I was asking about (in several variations) to swap in and out.

Eventually I had a guy I dealt with, and when I wanted to come in I would let him know and set-up a time, and he knew what I had at home (because he sold it to me), and would have the same set-up ready when I got there. He's also been to my house many times to help set things up, and listen to music too.

They also allow you to take the item home (or will bring it there if it's something large like speakers) for an in-home trial. Because no matter how much you try to reproduce things in a shop, there's no substitute for trying it in your own listening room at home.
 
rob#1
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Archer Archer
The shop I've dealt with for 30 years always recommended bringing your own music, and I always did.

We were always amazed at the clients who wanted to spend not inconsiderable amounts of money on a high quality music system, but listened to such a limited range of music. This coined the phrase “95% of people listen to 5% of music”. Therefore we always had to have on hand Vivaldi’s ‘Four Seasons’ (classical), Dire Straits’ ‘Brothers In Arms’ (rock) and Miles Davis ‘Kind Of Blue (jazz). Suffice to say I enjoyed it when someone brought in something different, new and/or interesting, or something they had recorded themselves as they knew how it sounded in the studio for comparison.

I recently installed a new cartridge, but just relied on prior experiences and online reviews to evaluate it. There aren’t many specialist retailers in my neck of the woods, and it’s not like the old days when I would demo a Koetsu or similar. Still, it sounds really good so I’m happy (for now; the hifi bug never goes away).
 
Evitzee
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SkunkPrince SkunkPrince
The store I went to used Joan Baez "Diamonds and Rust" a lot.
The sonics on that LP are quite good. I was never a big fan of Baez but I did have that record mainly because of the quality of the recording.
Edited:
 
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