Flea market find- yet another update

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Possibly a cousin...



Very nice watch whomever is responsible.
Perseverance, patience and gut instinct.....congratulations.
 
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Thank you dear Troels, if you think so then I must have done something right 😀
I’m now very curious to see what movement it has inside. Someone on Instagram indicated he has a Turler branded watch which has a Roamer movement inside.
I nearly raced to my watchmaker to get it opened but I already biked 15km earlier today, so I decided to be a bit more patient.

Thanks @Plees, it’s pretty scratched up but I don’t really mind. I appreciate watches that have been put to good use and frankly find a bit ridiculous some people’s repeated gloating on the social networks (not here thankfully) about their supposedly “NOS” watches.
Hah, NOS! I rarely see really NOS these days, mostly over polished, used, but promoted to unused to get a better sell.., nothing wrong with a bit of patina, specially with real vintage watched like your Türler! Great catch!
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Possibly a cousin...



Very nice watch whomever is responsible.
Perseverance, patience and gut instinct.....congratulations.
Many thanks and congrats to you on this beautiful watch— much more pristine than the one I just got.👍
 
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Thank you dear Troels, if you think so then I must have done something right 😀
I’m now very curious to see what movement it has inside. Someone on Instagram indicated he has a Turler branded watch which has a Roamer movement inside.
I nearly raced to my watchmaker to get it opened but I already biked 15km earlier today, so I decided to be a bit more patient.

A dealer branded watch from that era is pretty cool, IMO. Steel case, screw-down back and loads of radium - it had the same no-nonsense vibe about it as Mido Multiforts, Longines Sei Tacches, Tissot Antimagnetics and Cymas of that era 😀
 
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Steel case, screw-down back and loads of radium - it had the same no-nonsense vibe about it as Mido Multiforts, Longines Sei Tacches, Tissot Antimagnetics and Cymas of that era 😀

Exactly my reaction when I saw it 👍
And now it even has a vintage watch strap from that era. The strap is currently missing a keeper and has a couple flaws but I like the looks (if you forget the awful replacement crown for the moment).
 
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Great catches and they are both very Syrte style. Do you think that Elgin is a) a very early wrist watch or b) a pocket watch conversion? Nice to see some level of normalcy returning.

if you take note on the “tube” underneath the crown on the Elgin, you’ll see that something has been removed. That “tube” was typical of the type of swivel that a bow would have been attached to. Add a pendant loop to the bow, put a chain through the loop, and voila, you have a pendant watch a Victorian lady would have worn. Add wire lugs, remove the bow, and voila, you have a wrist watch. Albeit 90° out of orientation.
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Congratulation for those watches. That vintage diver has a lot of charisma, you can see, it has some history behind.
 
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Big radium Arabic numbers, screw in case, what’s not to like…

Eager to see what movement is hiding there !
Well, dear @Servius and everyone, it took time but we finally know what’s inside that Turler branded watch.
It’s a movement marked “Nivia watch Co”,
One of our good forum pals here and experienced collector extraordinaire told me privately Nivia made some nice watches, and that the movement looks like an “A. Schild base caliber”.
Interestingly of course, there’s a patent on that very nice waterproof case.

Hope you all had a good week end.
 
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The movement is either an A Schild 1187, or 1194, depending in diameter. These movements were found behind dials with countless names, as it was a very popular movement. Reliable, rugged, easy to service. These two movements were made in the millions, so it is not rare. NIVA didn’t actually make any part of the watch. It was like countless others of its sort, generic, produced form off-the-shelf parts. Mikrolisk doesn’t give any information on the NIVA name.
 
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If you’d look for Nivia, you will find multiple hits😉
 
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Thanks @Canuck, Mikrolisk does list “ Nivia SA” in Biel, which is the same brand as is written on this watch. Regardless, I think it’s a neat little watch, and I really like its screw back case.
 
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So here’s another surprise find in the department of “obscure yet good quality old watches” rescued from the 1940s era. Maybe early 1950s in this particular instance.

Another surprise is that it comes from the bottom of a closet where I was hunting for packing material. I’d forgotten I’d thrown in there a bag of old watches a member on another forum had insisted on sending me so I can play with them and take them apart. Most were cheap, broken redials from the 1920s to the 1960s. Suddenly I realized this one seemed salvageable. A steel screw back case with nice late 40s lugs, as I take it in my hand to look at it, voooof, there it starts running. Yes there’s an ugly relume on the hands, the branding “Halgreen” appears obscure, I can’t quite tell if the dial is refinished or a bit coarsely made, but it’s marked “swiss”, 17 jewels, waterproof and automatic.

I’m stunned to see the buckle is marked “Hong Kong” on the 1950s strap.

Now to what’s inside the watch. A case marked “Berna Watch Co”, and a movement with the same name and a “Bidynator” marked rotor. It’s now officially on probation, with a new strap of course.
 
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An interesting piece @Syrte.

As you may know, the Bidynator was the world's first successful bi-directional rotor winding automatic watch and was produced by Felsa, not "that other company".

I think it's a Felsa caliber 690, it may be marked somewhere.
Interesting again is the US import marking on the balance cock. It looks like "FON" which was Fewa Watch Company of New York who were probably a company selling multiple brands at the time.

The Felsa automatics from the 690 family were used in many Swiss brands during the 1940s/50s/60s.

So you have a watch with many connections, Berna, Felsa, Hallgreen and Fewa.
 
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EON is "Avalaon", whoever they are. Definitely EON when you zoom it up to the largest pic (click it twice).
 
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EON is "Avalaon", whoever they are. Definitely EON when you zoom it up to the largest pic (click it twice).

You're right, I thought it was an F.

Avalon/Calvert was probably another of the many American "watch companies", mostly based in New York, who were satisfying huge demand for imported watches in the post WWII boom period.

I once thought of starting a spreadsheet of watch brands I came across, but as my spreadsheet was limited to 1,048,576 rows I decided it wasn't enough to cover all of the names I would encounter.

😉
 
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An interesting piece @Syrte.

As you may know, the Bidynator was the world's first successful bi-directional rotor winding automatic watch and was produced by Felsa, not "that other company".

I think it's a Felsa caliber 690, it may be marked somewhere.
Interesting again is the US import marking on the balance cock. It looks like "FON" which was Fewa Watch Company of New York who were probably a company selling multiple brands at the time.

The Felsa automatics from the 690 family were used in many Swiss brands during the 1940s/50s/60s.

So you have a watch with many connections, Berna, Felsa, Hallgreen and Fewa.
EON is "Avalaon", whoever they are. Definitely EON when you zoom it up to the largest pic (click it twice).

Many thanks dear gentlemen, I learned something—I had no idea the Bidynator had supplanted that “other company” which claimed to have invented the automatic movement as well as the waterproof case.

Quite amazingly this little tool here has been doing its job super well and keeping excellent time, it’s a bit of a pity the lume is so ugly and the dial is scratched up….I think the dial might be original, it has fine serifs despite some uneven indexes and the “W” in “waterproof” slightly more inky.
Not sure what I’m supposed to do with all this.😕
 
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Mikrolisk records the wordmark Halgreen (along with Savillon and Zelia) as registered by Halgreen Inc, New York, on May 31, 1945.
 
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Mikrolisk records the wordmark Halgreen (along with Savillon and Zelia) as registered by Halgreen Inc, New York, on May 31, 1945.
Very interesting, many thanks. I may offer the watch in trade to my watchmaker for something else….
 
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My bargain hunting wife just came home with this, from a friend who picked it up in a charity shop for $A100. 35mm case, Cal 1030 from 1972, in remarkable condition.

 
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An interesting piece @Syrte.

As you may know, the Bidynator was the world's first successful bi-directional rotor winding automatic watch and was produced by Felsa, not "that other company".

There is a discussion going on in a watchmaker's group I'm a part of right now regarding automatic winding and it's history. There is a 400 page book by Richard Watkins called "The origins of self-winding watches 1773-1779" that describes the watchmaking efforts in this regard during that period. That's a large book to cover that short time, but there's a lot going on in that time.

In browsing through this book, it's clear that the first full rotor watch with bi-directional winding was invented by Hubert Sarton of Belgium, in 1777, with an example being presented to the French Academy in Paris for review in 1778. Here's an excerpt from the report that was written on the watch from the Academy:

"We supposed that this weight went in one direction, but it could go in the contrary direction, which would produce a precisely opposite effect, which would disturb everything. To make all these various movements profitable, the author has placed a second small wheel with a pinion and click-and-ratchet work, very similar to that which forms a unit with the weight, so that it gears with that one, and that its pinion gears with the wheel which moves that of the fusee. Thus it is clear that by these double gears, the various movements of the weight always produce a movement in the same direction on the wheel that moves that of the fusee. It is good to note that the click-and-ratchet work are only necessary here, so that the pinions can turn independently of the wheels, and vice versa. Lastly, so that, when the watch is completely wound, it cannot be wound more, the chain guard carries a pin which goes through the plate and will engage in the notches of a plate which is under the weight, so that it is stopped by this pin, remains motionless and the chain is no longer wound.

To make an experiment with this watch one of us had it carried by his servant for the space of two thousand steps or there about, it was run down before, and the chain was wound up two turns."

I've made the relevant text bold. This design really didn't go anywhere other than the Academy, so only a small number of these were ever made. Some images from the book:





A patent was also made for a full rotor bi-directional winding watch in 1893:



These were of course pocket watches, but the claims/arguments made by various watch companies in the 20th century regarding who was first with what, ring hollow when you see that the ideas came 140 years earlier...