Fake Daytona Sh*tstorm

Lenny Pepperidge · Feb 5, 2020

Tony C.
There was a time, as older members may recall, when some astute American car buyers would refine what they wanted, and insist on examples that were produced Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. The angle, which apparently had merit, was that the regular workers might call in sick on Mondays or Fridays in order to enjoy three day weekends, leaving less experienced line workers to fill in.

I always thought that the guys were still hungover on Monday and too focused on the upcoming weekend on Friday.

I've been joking that my old Tag 4000 Automatic was a Wednesday watch. Ran for 24 years without being serviced and then needed only a $170 repair with no new parts to get up and running perfectly again.

Archer · Feb 5, 2020

Andy K
Yeah but in this case the scammer was a prominent guy among several enthusiast communities....either as an admin or mod on the FB groups, or the guy running his own site as well as his YT and IG pages with tens of thousands of followers. And he was protected by other admins/mods on those sites.

I'm less alarmed by the quality of the fake, or the fact that there are scammers among us. That's always been the case in this hobby and why people need to do real research into what they're buying and use trusted sources.

It's the fact that these enthusiast communities were completely compromised. To some degree they were either founded or moderated by this guy and ended up being a bulwark against honesty and transparency. That is what separates this scandal from the many other watch scams I've seen reported over the years.

I agree completely. It wasn't just the usual "He's a good guy so give him the benefit of the doubt" but an active campaign in some cases to silence any word of these issues getting out.

scapa · Feb 5, 2020

Andy K
Yeah but in this case the scammer was a prominent guy among several enthusiast communities....either as an admin or mod on the FB groups, or the guy running his own site as well as his YT and IG pages with tens of thousands of followers. And he was protected by other admins/mods on those sites.

I'm less alarmed by the quality of the fake, or the fact that there are scammers among us. That's always been the case in this hobby and why people need to do real research into what they're buying and use trusted sources.

It's the fact that these enthusiast communities were completely compromised. To some degree they were either founded or moderated by this guy and ended up being a bulwark against honesty and transparency. That is what separates this scandal from the many other watch scams I've seen reported over the years.

Yes. As I set down the last bit of my post I was uncomfortably aware of that double-edge - but you’ve put it much more clearly than I could have. It’s the perfect cover, I suppose, for as long as it lasts.

Years ago there was a company much feted on some music/audio forums. The designer was doing very well until it emerged that some of his stuff was poorly made to the point of blowing up. As the damage control rolled out, including influential forum owners, many stories emerged of pieces not being shipped months and even years after deposits were taken, repairs charged for and not done, etc. Tens of thousands of dollars were lost, the company folded, he disappeared. And all these years later it still rankles, because of the trust betrayed, and yet the forum that gave him cover is still the largest and most powerful in the hobby. I guess the “buy the seller” rule should extend across fora and institutions as well as individuals, however rare such cases are overall.

Evitzee · Feb 5, 2020

Larry S
I believe that may be an understatement. 😁

But you could NEVER get it serviced by Rolex as they would change that dial. That's the kind of watch you keep as a safe queen and liquidate it at some point. Don't wear it.

nzshadow · Feb 5, 2020

Andy K
Yeah but in this case the scammer was a prominent guy among several enthusiast communities....either as an admin or mod on the FB groups, or the guy running his own site as well as his YT and IG pages with tens of thousands of followers. And he was protected by other admins/mods on those sites.

I'm less alarmed by the quality of the fake, or the fact that there are scammers among us. That's always been the case in this hobby and why people need to do real research into what they're buying and use trusted sources.

It's the fact that these enthusiast communities were completely compromised. To some degree they were either founded or moderated by this guy and ended up being a bulwark against honesty and transparency. That is what separates this scandal from the many other watch scams I've seen reported over the years.

BINGO.

jhross98 · Feb 5, 2020

pseikotick
Seeing the difference in the red on the dial and the rough finish on the movement (which is almost impossible to see without a loupe) sounds like a great way to recognize the difference, until the next generation color red is exactly the same as the real thing or the real thing changes slightly, and it will. And the video had the luxury of showing them side by side. I know without the comparison watch, I would not be able to confidently ID the fake, maybe even with magnification. Don't let pride in your own ability be your downfall. The bottom line is: The fakes are outstanding fakes, and they could fool nearly anyone. And Archer is correct again. Rolex is not perfect (but very damn good).

I really wish they had shown the warranty card w uv to see if the hologram was there.. Or the green lines actually show text. I am told these are like currency basically costs too much to fake. And while a legit warranty card doesn't guarantee a legit watch I can't believe you'd get a legit watch if the warranty card is fake

Evitzee · Feb 5, 2020

jhross98
I really wish they had shown the warranty card w uv to see if the hologram was there.. Or the green lines actually show text. I am told these are like currency basically costs too much to fake. And while a legit warranty card doesn't guarantee a legit watch I can't believe you'd get a legit watch if the warranty card is fake

I doubt the warranty card on the fake watch would have the microprint and hologram, and most buyers wouldn't even check that buying from a guy who has an outstanding reputation like this guy did. They might not even know the features even existed. I didn't, but I'm not a Rolex collector. There appears to be a lot of Rolex buyers who are unaware of the features of the warranty card. Anything can be faked so I'm sure the fakers are figuring out how the warranty card can be faked. Put a good fake watch in a good fake Rolex box with good fake warranty cards and it would be the wild, wild west. If the technology exists for Rolex to make the warranty card then someone with nefarious reasons could obtain that technology, especially if you are trying to make a fake $20,000 item appear genuine.

redpcar · Feb 5, 2020

gatorcpa
That would work for about five minutes.

You underestimate the will of these counterfeiters.
gatorcpa

Chipping would be difficult on watches. The technology is NFC (near field communication). Transmitter is inductively coupled with the chip to transmit a small amount of data. Usually from a phone or tablet. Inductive fields do not like metal so it would be nearly impossible to get the signal out of the watch unless the case back is glass. Then there is the issue that the inductive field is magnetic in nature. Not the best for mechanical watches either.

The information contained in the chip can be quite secure like on your bank card. It could be placed outside the watch but then you have the issue of wear.

In the end, no clear solution, which is probably why watch manufacturers have not pursued it. The technology has been around for 15+ years.

Larry S · Feb 5, 2020

Evitzee
But you could NEVER get it serviced by Rolex as they would change that dial. That's the kind of watch you keep as a safe queen and liquidate it at some point. Don't wear it.

As I recall from the articles, its value is massive. Yes, Rolex wants it back and yes they would FIFY it back into run of the mill.

GTveloce · Feb 5, 2020

Archer
Hmmm....that doesn't always ring true...this is a real Rolex, and it's not exactly "perfect"...

😉

Forget about which day of the week, they must have made this on April 1st!

Don't understand how they could've made the same mistake twice, once when printing the white numeral background the dial and again when applying the numeral?!

Martin_F · Feb 6, 2020

GTveloce
Forget about which day of the week, they must have made this on April 1st!

Don't understand how they could've made the same mistake twice, once when printing the white numeral background the dial and again when applying the numeral?!

I doubt they also print the applied numbers on the dial.

sxl2004 · Feb 6, 2020

Nice interview with the buyer on Scottish Watch Podcast

GTveloce · Feb 6, 2020

Martin_F
I doubt they also print the applied numbers on the dial.

Forgive my ignorance.
In this photo the reflection from the sides of the applied numerals looked like a background to me,but I now see from other examples that it’s not.
Either way a crazy find!

janice&fred · Feb 6, 2020

scapa
Yeah, that was classic TRF

TRF is a very busy site but very enjoyable nonetheless. WUS is another story...

Martin_F · Feb 6, 2020

GTveloce
Forgive my ignorance.
In this photo the reflection from the sides of the applied numerals looked like a background to me,but I now see from other examples that it’s not.
Either way a crazy find!

No worries. I had to look a couple times myself. And I'm by no means an expert...

Burr · Feb 6, 2020

The folks who did the documentary Don’t F*ck with a Cats should do a documentary on this horology house scandal and what appears to be some form of a Ponzi scheme. I’d definitely watch it on Netflix.

Larry S · Feb 6, 2020

janice&fred
TRF is a very busy site but very enjoyable nonetheless. WUS is another story...

TRF gives me a headache. WuS gives me a headache. OF no headache. That’s a winner for me.

CoDiffe · Feb 6, 2020

Burr
The folks who did the documentary Don’t F*ck with a Cats should do a documentary on this horology house scandal and what appears to be some form of a Ponzi scheme. I’d definitely watch it on Netflix.

Can we start a Go Fund Me for the nearest OF member to travel to Chris Essery’s home and place some dog sh🤬t behind his car door handle? I would certainly contribute!

hanky6 · Feb 6, 2020

Archer
Hmmm....that doesn't always ring true...this is a real Rolex, and it's not exactly "perfect"...

😉

Took me ages to see what is wrong.....
Was looking for some tiny imperfection and could not find anything....

redpcar · Feb 6, 2020

Fake Daytona Sh*tstorm

Lenny Pepperidge

Archer

scapa

Evitzee

nzshadow

jhross98

Evitzee

redpcar

Larry S

GTveloce

Martin_F

sxl2004

GTveloce

janice&fred

Martin_F

Burr

Larry S

CoDiffe

hanky6

redpcar

Similar threads

Seeking Expert Insight on Rolex Daytona 6239 (Serial: 1695131) Unusual Serial, Rare Dial, Provenance

Rolex Daytona 116523 18K YG / SS Panda Arabic Racing Dial Box & Papers

FS: Rolex Daytona - ref. 16520 (Zenith movement)

Rolex Daytona 116523 18K YG / SS White Dial F Serial

Rolex Cosmograph Daytona 126519LN - 40mm - Ghost Dial ( excellent )

Rolex 126509 Daytona Cosmograph 18K White Gold Silver / Steel Dial B&P