Expectation setting - does ultrasonic cleaning remove tarnish?

[BatDad]

Hi folks,

After a hiatus, I'm looking to pick up my watch rebuild project. Looking for some guidance to help set my expectations - specifcally with regards to results after cleaning.

I have the following keyless works parts - as you can see, they appear tarnished, and not at all 'shiny'.

After I put them through my cleaning process (3 jar, LR cleaning (10mins), LR ultrasonic rinser (2x 5mins)), should I expect these parts to be shiny and beautiful? Too my eyes they arent. They are cleaner in some regards but not what I was hoping for. The setting lever is a good example, and the setting screw didn't seem to change much at all.




The yoke was as tarnished as it was when it went in the machine, I attempted to scratch brush it and that seemed to brighten it up.There is a possibility that my cleaner is too old - it's about 2years old at this stage - but this was with new fluids from the bottle into the jars. (Unsure if cleaning effectiveness diminishes significantly over time)

So before I put everything back through the cleaning process - 'should' I be investing more time in precleaning. Or do parts like this need a presoak? I'd prefer not to have to order brand new parts to get them shiny, (in fact the hour recording runner was already a NOS purchase from ebay).

If they can't be made shiny, in general, is it 'best' to buy new, or is it likely they will work just fine?

many thanks for any guidance.
C

 

[rendo]

Which L&R cleaning solution are you using? The one with ammonia or without it?

I still don't think these parts will come out as new, but I would think the solution with ammonia would do better compared to the one without.

 

[Davidt]

I don’t have experience with movement parts but I assume the principle is the same as for jewellery, watch cases and bracelets. Tarnish is a chemical reaction such as oxidation which creates a surface layer which is part of the material. It’s not dirt which is simply stuck to the surface.
As a result, although the bubbles in an ultrasonic will create very minor friction forces, the effects of which are magnified by cleaning agents, it usually isn’t sufficient to remove tarnish.
A mild abrasive such as a polishing compound and cloth/wheel is require to remove all but the most minor and lightest of tarnishes.

Edited: Sep 10, 2024

 

[BatDad]

rendo

Which L&R cleaning solution are you using? The one with ammonia or without it?

I still don't think these parts will come out as new, but I would think the solution with ammonia would do better compared to the one without.

https://www.lrultrasonics.com/solutions/extra-fine-watch-cleaning-solution-109

109 - I think that's Ammonia based?

Davidt

I don’t have experience with movement parts but I assume the principle is the same as for jewellery, watch cases and bracelets. Tarnish is a chemical reaction such as oxidation which creates a surface layer which is part of the material. It’s not dirt which is simply stuck to the surface.
As a result, although the bubbles in an ultrasonic will create very minor friction forces, the effects of which are magnified by cleaning agents, it usually isn’t sufficient to remove tarnish.
A mild abrasive such as a polishing compound and cloth/wheel is require to remove all but the list minor and lightest of tarnishes.

Thanks David - that's consistent with my observation too - the fibreglass scratch brush was pretty effective on the yoke. I may have a gentle attempt at the more delicate parts also. I guess my spring will just not be as shiny as I'd like. The question is, will it bother me knowing it's in the movement - ah, who am i kidding, I know it will. Likely I can pick one up from ebay for $20 or so! 😀

 

[Archer]

Tarnish on steel is called by another name - rust. You can remove rust with solutions like evaporust, but it will leave behind a black surface as you have here. This requires mechanical removal.

 

[BatDad]

Archer

Tarnish on steel is called by another name - rust. You can remove rust with solutions like evaporust, but it will leave behind a black surface as you have here. This requires mechanical removal.

That makes complete sense, as there were some minor rust spots I took off with Bergeon 30496 rust remover as part of my pre-cleaning. Hadn't realized the outcome would be that black surface. I guess I have more pre-cleaning to do!

Thanks Archer!

 

[BatDad]

Like to think i've made some progress. Lot shinier now. Onto the cleaning machine again tomorrow.