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Enigma on a polerouter 204607/2

pj-hugo
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Hello everybody,

Long time reader, first time poster =)

I'd love to pick your collective brain on a dilemma I'm currently facing on a polerouter. I'd buy it from a vintage watch seller who has a solid reputation. The watch has a memorable meteorite patina, it’s rather pricy (4000€) and I would therefore like to be certain of my purchase.

I’m assuming that such patina can only come from a black dial. See pictures below.
I was able to go check out the watch in person. Huguenin Frères case looks unpolished, mechanism seems in great condition (it's been revised). Crown and buckle look original.

I'm unsure about the sub reference and the serial though.
Reference number is 204607/2, so black dial is at odds with the silver "soleil" dial outlined here.
Serial is 210XXXX doesnt match with the polerouter steel reference table which says that serials for 204607/2 only starts at 2148432.
It's an early serial for this reference though, and matches with 204607/1 subreference (which have black dials).

Should I be worried?
I've heard many times that dials were routinely changed by UG, and the patina does imply that this dial is rather old.
I am a bit baffled by the slight discrepancy between the subreference and the serial though, but I'm also no expert.

A huge thanks in advance for your feedback.

IMG_8358.webp IMG_8384.webp IMG_8386.webp IMG_8597.webp IMG_8595.webp IMG_8594.webp
 
gatorcpa
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Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the best.

IMO, either the dial or the caseback was replaced.

At that price, I would want to have no questions.
gatorcpa
 
pj-hugo
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the best.

IMO, either the dial or the caseback was replaced.

At that price, I would want to have no questions.
gatorcpa
Thanks a lot for your answer, I agree !
What I don’t get though is that there’s a discrepancy on the caseback itself between the reference and the serial. Hence why I’m having a doubt.

Obvious answer would be that the caseback is fake. But it doesn’t feel like it.
 
redpcar
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I the back is not fake. Something was swapped at some point in its life. $4K is a hard pass. I do kinda like the dial.
 
bgrisso
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Are you confident the numbers on the caseback are being read correctly? Did you see them yourself and confirm with magnification? They are lightly engraved and can get easily worn and hard to read.
If you are certain the numbers are correct there are two issues........1) as people already said this suggests either dial or caseback are swapped.......2) completely independent of that issue, the case serial tables may need an update, you should contact @CafeRacer . I would be curious if there are any known 204607/1 case serial examples later than what you are seeing on this 204607/2 caseback ?
Edited:
 
pj-hugo
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thanks everyone.

That dial is stunning (even more so in real life) but I think I’ll indeed pass… such a pity.

@bgrisso : yes I saw the reference and serial myself with magnification!

According to @CafeRacer s fantastic database, 204607/1 serials go from 207XXXX to 235XXXX.
The 204607/2 subref starts from 214XXXX onwards. The caseback I ve seen is 204607/2 with a 210XXXX serial.

I also wonder if @Mazoue would have a take ?

Thanks again for all the replies and the interest.
 
bgrisso
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yes best to let those guys weigh in on the details, I'm not a pro on these references. If you love the dial and it was a reasonable price you could just go for it, but at that asking price, everything would have to be completely correct
 
CafeRacer
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pj-hugo pj-hugo
According to @CafeRacer s fantastic database, 204607/1 serials go from 207XXXX to 235XXXX.
The 204607/2 subref starts from 214XXXX onwards. The caseback I ve seen is 204607/2 with a 210XXXX serial.
A lot of people seem to gloss over the text above the tables...

"Important to note that the serial number range is reported only for those that have been identified so far - it is a guide rather than a definitive production range. These numbers are updated regularly when new information is found."
😉

If you can share a photo of the caseback with the numbers legible, i will update the table.

This one that you have posted above3 looks like a 204610 case front (and probably dial too) rather than a 204607. The casebacks are interchangable for these two references, so my guess is that has happened at some point in its life.
 
pj-hugo
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CafeRacer CafeRacer
A lot of people seem to gloss over the text above the tables...

"Important to note that the serial number range is reported only for those that have been identified so far - it is a guide rather than a definitive production range. These numbers are updated regularly when new information is found."
😉

If you can share a photo of the caseback with the numbers legible, i will update the table.

This one that you have posted above3 looks like a 204610 case front (and probably dial too) rather than a 204607. The casebacks are interchangable for these two references, so my guess is that has happened at some point in its life.
Thank you much for taking the time answer, this is immensely helpful.
I will do my best to send you a picture.
 
bgrisso
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CafeRacer CafeRacer
A lot of people seem to gloss over the text above the tables...

"Important to note that the serial number range is reported only for those that have been identified so far - it is a guide rather than a definitive production range. These numbers are updated regularly when new information is found."
😉

If you can share a photo of the caseback with the numbers legible, i will update the table.

This one that you have posted above3 looks like a 204610 case front (and probably dial too) rather than a 204607. The casebacks are interchangable for these two references, so my guess is that has happened at some point in its life.
yah was noticing the swiss rather than swiss T at the bottom, is that one possible indicator of a 204610 dial?
 
Dan S
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Suddenly we are seeing a lot of these stingray dials pop up out of the woodwork, which is interesting. Personally, I feel this is ugly damage, and they don't appeal to me at all.
 
bgrisso
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I don’t love it in photos but would need to see it in hand to decide.
 
Dan S
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Here is another. It was a service dial, and the seller was asking 45k euro. I also saw something similar recently on another forum. Never recall seeing these before last year.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/rolex-6150-unique-service-dial.189032/ Cover Image
Thread 'Rolex 6150 Unique Service Dial' ·
I've stumbled upon this very interesting Rolex Explorer and would like to get some input. The story goes that it has gotten a repurposed Submariner Dial at a Service which was customized in the...
myyystic ·
 
CafeRacer
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bgrisso bgrisso
yah was noticing the swiss rather than swiss T at the bottom, is that one possible indicator of a 204610 dial?
Yes, but theyre not exclusively for that ref - e.g. the very earliest 204612s (227 serial) also had swiss only dials.
 
pj-hugo
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CafeRacer CafeRacer
Yes, but theyre not exclusively for that ref - e.g. the very earliest 204612s (227 serial) also had swiss only dials.
Yeah I had wondered about this too.

The serial of the watch (210XXXX) seemed to be early enough for it to be pre 1963 (assuming this is when Swiss manufacturers started phasing in the T). According to the emmywatch serial database, it dates from 1960.

So I thought that was ok. Until I’ve realised, thanks to this forum, that the dial and the caseback didn’t go together…
 
bgrisso
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pj-hugo pj-hugo
Yeah I had wondered about this too.

The serial of the watch (210XXXX) seemed to be early enough for it to be pre 1963 (assuming this is when Swiss manufacturers started phasing in the T). According to the emmywatch serial database, it dates from 1960.

So I thought that was ok. Until I’ve realised, thanks to this forum, that the dial and the caseback didn’t go together…
i guess you can go back to the seller and try for a massive discount due to this problem, but that rarely works out 😀
 
G___
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Get yourself a copy of the Polerouter book. After reading a pile of these threads, it seemed like the best option to inform myself. Stunning book.
 
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