Ending an eBay auction without cause

Bernhard J · Jun 15, 2023

A seller offering a watch in parallel on this forum ended his eBay auction for the same item without cause, presumably because the auction did not meet the sellers expectations. Both, the asking price and the shipping costs given in this forum were significantly above what was the offer on eBay. It may be noted that any auction is not just an option that can be cancelled according to mood and expectations, but a binding offer to the public. Imo unserious, both, here and on eBay. I do not know whether it is allowed to identify the unserious seller, so I let it for the moment.

Regards, Bernhard

Dan S · Jun 15, 2023

Well, on the one hand, eBay auctions are (unfortunately) cancelled all the time, so this thread doesn't have much value without identifying the seller, assuming that you want to take him to task for his actions. I don't think there is a rule against canceling an eBay auction; however, I think the seller may be required pay a final value fee based on the highest bid at the time of cancellation.

On the other hand, you will need to decide whether you want to be at the center of a sh*tstorm.

STANDY · Jun 15, 2023

Seller might have had it for sale in several places and it sold in one of those…

Not the first time it’s happened.

gbesq · Jun 15, 2023

Happens all the time on eBay and there are legitimate and illegitimate reasons for doing it. There really isn't any recourse given that eBay can't force a seller to sell an item, so your option is to name the seller here and, as Dan suggests, doing so may result in your getting more than you bargained for and not in a good way.

RevZMan123 · Jun 15, 2023

They obviously discourage it but if it falls within the parameters of their prescribed rules, not sure what the point of this post is other than sales-shaming?

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/cancelling-listing?id=4146

Plenty of people cross-post sales listings here, the only foul would technically be chrono24 as they do actually state you agree to NOT cross-post it while it's active on their site. (3 months).

watchyouwant · Jun 15, 2023

eBay auction or eBay BIN?

sathomasga · Jun 15, 2023

RevZMan123
the only foul would technically be chrono24 as they do actually state you agree to NOT cross-post it while it's active on their site. (3 months)

and even that restriction does not apply to dealers.

Donn Chambers · Jun 15, 2023

I ended an auction just a couple of weeks ago on a watch I was offering here. I’d given up hope of selling it here (it was a Tissot PRX Chrono) and decided to list it on EBay as an auction starting at a lower price than I was selling it here (but not much lower, and that was just the starting price). About a day after I listed it, I got an offer from here, we made a deal, and I removed the auction before anyone bid.

I don’t see anything ethically wrong with that at all. And I did add a comment on my posting here it was off to EBay, so the buyer could have tried to look for it there if he wanted.

sheepdoll · Jun 16, 2023

Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a thread (probably on the sales forum.) where one could simply post an informal notice to an eBay auction. There is the recomended items thread. Feels self serving to promote one's own Item. Especially when dealing with the fuzzy embarkation by dealer/flippers and the person who wants to cull something from the collection.

I did once list some Bulova Parts here. When they did not sell I asked in a thread similar to this if it was OK to list the items both here and eBay. The consensus at the time was it would work best for BIN. Eventually after many months the Items did sell on eBay.

It gets more complex when auctions are involved. Most of what interests me are broken watches and parts. Posting a WTB here is awkward as I am looking for low end low price stuff. Finding such things on eBay seems more rewarding at least in the short term.

From time to time I do cull items. When I restarted my interest a year ago I decided to limit focus on certain types of watches. When I do sell something I usually get something else what is a bit closer to the current interest. Sometimes one gets two of something just to get a part.

I noticed a lot of things almost seem to naturally fall out in pairs. I do not _need_ two gold filled monocase Seamasters which may or may not have been redialed. But which one is the one to part with? There really is no way to test the water.

I was thinking about this driving home tonight. That were I to sell now, I would be just aquiring inflationary script. At the moment I am comfortable so there is no need to sell. Even though I hear others say that perhaps I should sell some watches. Seems that would be short selling as any extra discretionary income I do get goes to watches, camera parts, or electronics. Other times it goes to candy and junk food, or the occasional sushi dinner.. How I justify my addiction -- that watch I could bid on cost the same as a fast food meal.

For a lot of folk buying and selling is a blood sport. Others it is a lottery ticket.

I am told there are people (bots and AI) that scan these forums looking for items that can be quickly flipped for profit.

Recently there was a desirable item on eBay. I did not get it as there were other bidders. After the auction several other examples appeared as BIN for say 100 more that I was willing to pay and what these went for. I was the underbidder. The high bidder bid in the last second. Probably using a bid snipe program. I could have bid 100 more which would be closer to the BIN price. The other bidders could make the same choice. Auctions are not always fair or honest. Never have been.

Omegafanman · Jun 16, 2023

watchyouwant
eBay auction or eBay BIN?

I think that is an important distinction. You can get in trouble if you end an auction after there has been a bid or for refusing to sell if someone wins the item. One old boy was sued for £12k (link below)

Selling is not easy and I dont have an issue if people want to offer items on different platforms. One often see houses with several estate agents in the UK for example - and I would expect the prices to vary with the risks, efforts and fees associated with the different methods. The buyers on eBay seem to have the upper hand anyway. I have had people win and then fail to pay etc etc - no action is taken, you have to wait a long time and you cant leave them negative feedback. I do think once someone has bid on or purchased an item you need to honour the process - so dont cancel an auction once there is bidding (although the BIN option on Ebay makes that a bit more nuanced)

German court orders British pensioner to pay £12k after he cancels his own eBay auction - World News - Mirror Online

Bernhard J · Jun 16, 2023

An auction can be ended after bids have been placed for very limited causes, that is that the item was lost or stolen, or broken. If neither has happened, then the seller is obliged by law to sell to the high bidder, regardless what the highest bid was and whether the seller is satisfied by that. The high bidder can otherwise either claim the item itself, or damage compensation in civil proceedings. BIN is a completely separate matter.

Some time ago I myself had put a few wristwatches and a pocket watch in eBay auctions starting at 1 € and the results were not really pleasing. But I nevertheless gave all items to the high bidders. One was very kind and expressed his joy, I liked that then. Another one offered the item a few days later in an own eBay listing, with my photos and literally my description, for double price. That was less fine and I politely asked him to make own photos and draft an own specification (copyright infringement). What he then did, so OK. Funny was that he requested to be educated about how to open the watch for making own photos; I did of course give him the information for avoiding that he damages the watch.

Last year I won an auction for a gold cased pocket watch. After having received it and weighing the case, it turned out that I had paid about half the scrap gold value of the case. I told this to the seller and offered a return, which he happily accepted, offering compensation for my out of the pocket expenses.

If a seller lists an item in an auction, and if I win it for a completely unreasonable low price, I am open to cancel the sale, since I am no professional reseller and mainly of the buyers side. But I want to be asked. It is - aside the legal aspect, see above - extremely unpolite and respectless to simply delete all bids without notice and to end the auction. He at least could have sent a message saying that he is sorry, the watch had fallen onto a stone floor and now is smashed. OK, he then would have had to cancel the offer in this forum also ...😎

But in the instant case I was not all too surprised, because the listing in this forum was not only significantly higher, but in addition with excessive shipping costs (in contrast to the eBay listing). My personal consequence simply is that I blacklist this seller, on whatever sales platform.

eugeneandresson · Jun 16, 2023

Unfortunately the bottom line is : possession is 9/10ths of the law. And when there is a way out, despite terms and conditions and whims of people who are not in possession, it makes that 1/10th approximate 0. All IMH2CO naturally 👍

Pastorbottle · Jun 16, 2023

sheepdoll
that watch I could bid on cost the same as a fast food meal.

Yeah but the watch will taste better and be more nutritious!

ghce · Jun 16, 2023

Pastorbottle
Yeah but the watch will taste better and be more nutritious!

mmmmmm cheese....

Bernhard J · Jun 16, 2023

Pizza!!!

Donn Chambers · Jun 16, 2023

Bernhard J
An auction can be ended after bids have been placed for very limited causes, that is that the item was lost or stolen, or broken. If neither has happened, then the seller is obliged by law to sell to the high bidder, regardless what the highest bid was and whether the seller is satisfied by that. The high bidder can otherwise either claim the item itself, or damage compensation in civil proceedings. BIN is a completely separate matter.

Some time ago I myself had put a few wristwatches and a pocket watch in eBay auctions starting at 1 € and the results were not really pleasing. But I nevertheless gave all items to the high bidders. One was very kind and expressed his joy, I liked that then. Another one offered the item a few days later in an own eBay listing, with my photos and literally my description, for double price. That was less fine and I politely asked him to make own photos and draft an own specification (copyright infringement). What he then did, so OK. Funny was that he requested to be educated about how to open the watch for making own photos; I did of course give him the information for avoiding that he damages the watch.

Last year I won an auction for a gold cased pocket watch. After having received it and weighing the case, it turned out that I had paid about half the scrap gold value of the case. I told this to the seller and offered a return, which he happily accepted, offering compensation for my out of the pocket expenses.

If a seller lists an item in an auction, and if I win it for a completely unreasonable low price, I am open to cancel the sale, since I am no professional reseller and mainly of the buyers side. But I want to be asked. It is - aside the legal aspect, see above - extremely unpolite and respectless to simply delete all bids without notice and to end the auction. He at least could have sent a message saying that he is sorry, the watch had fallen onto a stone floor and now is smashed. OK, he then would have had to cancel the offer in this forum also ...😎

But in the instant case I was not all too surprised, because the listing in this forum was not only significantly higher, but in addition with excessive shipping costs (in contrast to the eBay listing). My personal consequence simply is that I blacklist this seller, on whatever sales platform.

How about buyers who back out of an auction and refuse to pay? I’ve had that happen too many times to count. Many never even contacted me, just never paid. Morally and legally, they should honor their bid, but EBay allows them to not pay and so what am I as the seller to do? Now, it’s even harder to give these “buyers” negative feedback. Should I try to go after them in court for a few hundred dollars? Not worth my time or money. I just either resist, or sell to the next highest bidder. And I’ve had cases where I went to several bidders and they all declined.

My point is, there are just as many bad faith buyers in the online auction platforms as sellers.

Dan S · Jun 16, 2023

Bernhard J
An auction can be ended after bids have been placed for very limited causes, that is that the item was lost or stolen, or broken. If neither has happened, then the seller is obliged by law to sell to the high bidder, regardless what the highest bid was and whether the seller is satisfied by that.

I understand that you are angry and would like to interpret the rules that way, but in the US at least, that is not what eBay says, you conveniently left out the phrase "or no longer available." If the item were sold elsewhere, many sellers would interpret it as being no longer available, which seems to be a deliberately vague phrase. eBay provides a process to cancel an auction if it is not within the last 12 hours, if the item is no longer available. eBay discourages doing so, the seller has to pay fees, and eBay says that there might be consequences if a seller does it too often. However, despite the fact that we don't like it, it does appear to be allowed.

Screen Shot 2023-06-16 at 6.01.28 AM.png

Bernhard J · Jun 16, 2023

Donn Chambers
My point is, there are just as many bad faith buyers in the online auction platforms as sellers.

That is so, without question. One might add shill bidding practice.

Bernhard J · Jun 16, 2023

Hi Dan,

The court decision cited further above overruled "eBay Rules", because eBay Rules insofar are not compatible with EC law. In the cited case the seller even argued that he suprisingly discovered a fault of the item (haha), but that did not help him either. eBay Rules are not supernational "law"...

Any seller has the option of electing BIN. Listing it in an auction, however, is binding under civil law (in the EC at least) as soon as at least one bid has been placed. I know that many sellers do not like this fact.

Of course nobody with common sense would go into litigation for low amounts. But that is not an argument making inappropriate sales practice "legal".

I am not really angry. Just a little bit annoyed. Such sellers simply are time-wasters, because before bidding people often do some research work. The lesson is to simply avoid such a seller in the future.

Dan S · Jun 16, 2023

Bernhard J
The court decision cited further above overruled "eBay Rules", because eBay Rules insofar are not compatible with EC law.

This is why I referred specifically to the US in my previous post. I may have missed it, but I didn't see a seller location mentioned in your previous posts.

Ending an eBay auction without cause

Bernhard J

Dan S

STANDY

gbesq

RevZMan123

watchyouwant

sathomasga

Donn Chambers

sheepdoll

Omegafanman

Bernhard J

eugeneandresson

Pastorbottle

ghce

Bernhard J

Donn Chambers

Dan S

Bernhard J

Bernhard J

Dan S

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