Hi forum members, I am posting to ask for your advice on an ebay transaction gone wrong. As a bit of background, I have been collecting watches for more than ten years, and have occasionally bought and sold on ebay, never experiencing any problems at all. I recently purchased a watch from a seller on ebay. According to the item description, the watch was being sold by the original owner, and had stopped working at some point and required service. A later update to the listing mentioned that the watch was actually working, but had not been serviced in a while. Upon receiving the watch, it was clear that it had suffered water damage that was never disclosed. While I never specifically asked about water damage, I did send a message asking about damage or discoloration to the dial. He said there was not. However, upon inspection, I have found some spotting and what I can only describe as a "bubble where the dial finish is raised. In considering the auction, I assumed that, as it was being sold by the original owner, significant damage would be disclosed. In this case it was not. Instead, the seller mentioned only that the watch hadn't been serviced, and that one was required. Accordingly, I have opened a claim that the item was not as described, due to this omission. I have offered to work with the seller to find a solution, but he has refused. Does anyone have advice for how to approach this situation? Have you ever been in a similar situation? Thanks so much for any advice you may be able to provide, David http://www.ebay.com/itm/142320178084?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:ITPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
You should have requested better photos of the dial before bidding. As you accepted the risk posed by a poor set of images, and there is no evidence that the seller was dishonest in his description, you may well be out of luck.
Do not "work" on the watch. Or have extensive examinations done. That will be considered, to Ebay, to be tampering with the watch in such a way as to avoid warranty. I've heard people get into hot water just by opening up the caseback! But it usually works out. Does the movement have water damage? Or just the dial?
It's described as "Good original condition" but says nothing of water damage. I'd go through eBay or PayPal and ask for a refund. As mentioned before, don't touch the watch or have it examined by a watchmaker.
You'll be fine. Highly unlikely that eBay/ PayPal won't find in your favor. I had the same happen once with a transaction on WUS with a new seller selling some vintage longines. The items were in far worse condition than described. Seller refused to work with me at all, even though I offered a reasonable partial refund as a solution. PayPal found in my a favor after a few days and suddenly the seller was happy to play ball
Who says it is water damaged anyhow, many early 70s Omega dials can bubble or deteriorate visibly with no water exposure. I think eBay will probably side with the buyer here as they usually do but as noted by Tony above you bought it based on the pics which do show blemishes so I can see why the buyer thinks you are wasting his time. On the other hand if the movement shows any evidence of water corrosion I think you do have a good case. If you pop the back and it is pristine I think you should suck it up and keep it personally.
"Good" is a very malleable term. Most vintage watches with "good", as opposed to "very good", "excellent", or "mint" dials, show damage of some kind. Usually described as "patina", of course.
Good original doesn't include water damage. Whatever the rights or wrongs of this case, eBay invariably sides with the buyer, so if a request is made soon after receipt it's highly likely they will agree to a refund. The part I don't like is that buyers now have 6 months and I am sure that is abused at times.
You bought a watch from the original owner and took a gamble. The lack of better dial pics was likely a reason it didn't go higher, which was working in your favour. Had it been from a dealer, I'd say get a return case open. However, as it's from the original owner, I generally consider these as 'pays your money and takes your chance'. You'd have been over the moon had you got a bargain because of the bad dial pics. Can't have it both ways.
As someone that trades on shitty pics, sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose...you have to hedge your best. Now if the watch has a glaring flaw that was not described, that is one thing, but if there are minor aspects that the seller did not realize and you so because of your knowledge, then you should have asked in the first place. Do you have any pics? Is the movement rusted? Buying non-working chronos with no movt shots is Russian Roulette. On the brightside, case looks stunning!
Hi everyone, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post, and for your advice. I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge that exists in this community. To answer some of your questions: - I took the watch to an AWCI Certified Master Watchmaker, who confirmed there is corrosion on the movement caused by water damage. I could live with slight damage to the dial. Corrosion on the movement is my main concern. The watchmaker did not want to provide an estimate, and did not want to even work on the watch. - The listing originally said the watch was not working. It was later amended to say that it is working (which is true - even the chronograph functions), that it was in "good original condition", and that all it needed was a "cleaning". I am of the opinion that water damage is not consistent with "good original condition", and that instead of a cleaning it needs an overhaul with extensive part replacement. - I opened a case with Ebay this past Saturday, having received the watch seven days before. It is currently pending. I am going to try and go out of my way to reach some kind of resolution with the seller. Hopefully that is successful. Thanks again for sharing your advice, it is greatly appreciated!!! David
Seller clearly states that he bought it new in the 70's and it has never been serviced. Water damage aside, that alone means it needs an overhaul and likely needs extensive parts replaced. Do you have photos of the water damage? You say it is significant, but that really doesn't say much - photos would help ascertain how bad the damage is. Water coming through the crown and pushers is not at all unusual on these watches when they have gone for decades without servicing... Did the watchmaker say why they didn't want to work on it? Are they not familiar with the watch/movement? Cheers, Al
I would say pretty much all vintage watches bought on Ebay, especially those bought cheap, will need a complete overhaul with potentially extensive parts replacement. It comes with the turf.
Hi Al, thank you for responding. I had factored the cost of an overhaul into my purchasing decision, but had not factored water damage into that equation. I do not have photos of the water damage. By "significant" I meant that corrosion is clearly present on the movement, but all functions are currently working, and it will run for more than 36 hours on a single wind. The watchmaker did not want to work on it because he has a pretty extensive backlog, which I think is totally understandable. I understand you are experiencing a similar situation (which I think is a great compliment to your work and reputation). Thanks again, David
Hi David, Okay the impression you gave initially seemed much worse than what you are saying now. When you said the damage was significant and the watchmaker didn't even want to work on it, that made it seem like the watch is in very rough shape with perhaps heavy water damage - the condition of the watch seemed to be the reason he didn't want to work on it rather than just being busy - every watchmaker I know is busy. Based on how long it runs and that all functions are working, I really think this is not such a big deal - of course photos would help assess how bad the damage is. Rust that is surface rust can be cleaned up and only have cosmetic effects. Deeper rust can be more problematic, but it really depends on what parts are actually damaged and how far the rust goes. There's no way to know that without having the watch serviced. I have seen rust just on the stem and setting mechanisms, which is very common: All the way to completely flooded watches...this is "significant" rust: Cheers, Al
When I click on the eBay link I see that bidding ended at $1550 USD but the reserve wasn't met. How did you complete the purchase via eBay?