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  1. simonsays Oct 8, 2018

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    Unfortunately what this thread highlights is that this watch is too easy to ‘build’ and then get certified by Omega as original.
     
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  2. mr_yossarian Oct 8, 2018

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    sdre, Dan S and simonsays like this.
  3. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Oct 8, 2018

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    Omega does not certify watches.

    Omega issues an extract of the archives, stating that a movement number left the factory on a certain date, in a certain case reference.

    What state the watch is in today, is not reflected or guaranteed by the document, which is a statement of situation at the release date.
     
  4. S.H. Oct 8, 2018

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    Vintage Daytonas have the same problem: when something -a hand, a dial- adds tens of thousands $ to the final price, you find doctored/faked watches. Too much $$$ involved. (I'm convinced that if you pay a few thousand $ you can have any convincing dial/hands combo you want)
     
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  5. Andy K Dreaming about winning an OFfie one day. Oct 8, 2018

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    This is an important distinction. The extract normally only confirms the most basic of configuration: what case the movement is meant for. Occasionally they refer to bracelet/strap, dial color, or other details but buyers and collectors should always remember that even if your watch and your extract are a match, it is no guarantee that your watch was always that way.

    I have a Seamaster Big Blue, I requested the Extract and it came back for a 176.007. I could put that movement into a 176.007 case and suddenly the Extract matches.
     
  6. simonsays Oct 8, 2018

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    But not in the case of these watches which are judged on the condition they are in today. Cue much shinaigans.
     
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  7. t_swiss_t Oct 8, 2018

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    All this talk about the 'major' differences in these dials compared to others seems to be a distinction without a difference. 145.012's always look very glossy/shiny/satin-y compared to 105.012s and Ed's and so far no one has shown any major differences between the UM as compared to 145.012's that have serials in range/around the UM range. I'm guessing that whenever someone posts pictures, most of OF will squint and scratch their heads trying to see a difference while UM owners will shout about how obvious a difference there is.

    Before the UM authorities admonish me, yes, I've seen a few in person, and no, I don't own one (I didn't care to spend the extra $3k on one the other year and definitely don't want to spend an extra $70k now).

    This seems like how some 145.022-69 sellers, whose dials are jet black, say they're 95% dark chocolate tropical because they're in the right serial range and jack up the price.
     
    Edited Oct 8, 2018
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  8. BenBagbag Oct 8, 2018

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    Wait. I'm still confused. Does Omega have records of which watches had red/orange chrono hands? Yes or no.
    From @Spacefruit's earlier story, it sounded like Omega has that info.

    Next: Do they ask for pictures to verify it is on there?
     
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  9. simonsays Oct 8, 2018

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    Omega do not have the information. It is based on the serial number and the hand on the watch when the extract is requested.
     
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  10. S.H. Oct 8, 2018

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    They seem to add the remark after checking the watch, nothing in the archive probably. So, they are providing some sort of authentication service? I would not want to be in their shoes... they should prepare themselves for quite a few "orange hands" to be checked by shady sellers ::stirthepot::.
    Or we may just see fake extracts.
     
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  11. djmusicman Oct 8, 2018

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    I was about to ask the same. I noticed that the dial on my 145.012-68 looks glossier when compared to other speedmasters that I've seen/owned.
     
    my speedy.jpg
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  12. gdupree Oct 8, 2018

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    But how is this possible given @Spacefruit's story? Is there another explanation that I'm too dense to think of? I'm guessing that's why @Vintagewtchzilla eluded to the situation as "mysterious"... Unless we just chalk it up to the archives department accidentally/erroneously adding the remark to his extract, I guess, there has to be a missing piece to that puzzle.
     
  13. S.H. Oct 8, 2018

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    They may have a reaaaally close look at the hand, its paint, check its dimensions and shape for example. Maybe there are other details the general public is not aware of (I certainly hope so, and I don't want to know).

    But seriously, this is a stinky can of worms imho. I can almost hear the fakers grinding small triangles of metal and painting it orange.
     
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  14. sxl2004 Oct 8, 2018

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    This certification procedure will certainly ensure that more than the estimated 50 Ultramen exist.
    :rolleyes:
     
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  15. gdupree Oct 8, 2018

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    True. If there were a clear answer, I'm sure we would have had it already. We've probably gone as deep as a public platform needs to go. If I ever make it to a GTG with any of the fine folk of this thread, I will have many questions :). I've learned a lot regardless.
     
  16. padders Oooo subtitles! Oct 8, 2018

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    Frankly the whole thing stinks to high heaven at present. Without a little more transparency about what exactly makes up an Ultraman, I wouldn't give you $8K for one, no matter $45K or the 'optimistic' $80k for the watch discussed here. Special dial? If so why no mention on extracts. Extracts issued after inspection you say? Sounds basically like the archive don’t know their arse from their elbow if so. Either there is a record or there is not, and if not then there is nothing Ultra about the Ultraman.
     
    Edited Oct 8, 2018
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  17. Davidt Oct 8, 2018

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    Exactly.

    An 'extract', by definition, should be based on an extract of information from the archive.

    If it is something else and people are using it as a basis for asking 80k for a watch, then I'd need to know exactly what that process was before I'd consider spending anywhere near that kind of money.
     
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  18. sdre Oct 8, 2018

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    Appreciate all the helpful questions and input here.

    I have a bunch of mix feelings at the moment, while its great to learn from the well learned here; I have to admit Omega doesn't seem to know what they are doing. This is quite disappointing from a collector point of view... The whole idea of an extract seems even less important than it seems; almost watered down.

    I remember this lesson a Rolex collector taught me; RSC Chits doesn't mean anything. It only means the watch was serviced by Rolex. That's all. It doesn't replace the warranty card (birth cert per se)
     
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  19. simonsays Oct 8, 2018

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    Yes but at least Rolex are not giving out certificates to accompany the doctored watches
     
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  20. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Oct 8, 2018

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    I thought the extract inspection was to confirm what's in the records. In other words, a watch that was originally an ultraman has record of special orange hand, and the inspection is to verify that the hand is the correct one and not one of the others that are the wrong length. Perhaps as a means of preventing the unscrupulous?

    As for the special dials, I don't know anything. It could be a nice little bonus, but it sounds like we don't have enough info yet to know for sure if they're unique to the ultraman.
     
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