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Ebay Can Now Take Their Cut Even If You Don't Sell

Modest_Proposal
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Not recently.

I thought there were check boxes that disallow buyers from particular countries to bid on your items, no? Or was that not the problem?

It is understandable that Ebay would want the consent of both parties, since you apparently agreed contractually to allow bids from that location and then denied the sale after-the-fact.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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Not recently.

I thought there were check boxes that disallow buyers from particular countries to bid on your items, no? Or was that not the problem?

It is understandable that Ebay would want the consent of both parties, since you apparently agreed contractually to allow bids from that location and then denied the sale after-the-fact.
The country was allowed, but the specific address was not insurable. And I'm not going to ship to a fraud-ridden country if I can't have my packages insured.

Also, it's one thing to ding the seller with negative feedback if a sale cannot be completed, but to assume that a sale has been made but seller is just avoiding fees and take commission anyway?
 
jimmyd13
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Modest_Proposal Modest_Proposal
Now, I'm just a country boy. And I don't know much about that there legal stuffin'.

But what I can say is that I have sold hundreds of items on Ebay and have had perhaps dozens of non-payments. And in every single case - leading up to last week, Ebay has always and automatically refunded my final value fees if a sale was cancelled due to non-payment. There isn't even a process. It just happens instantly.
The changes came into effect here on 17th September. I can't speak for other areas.
 
Modest_Proposal
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
The country was allowed, but the specific address was not insurable. And I'm not going to ship to a fraud-ridden country if I can't have my packages insured.

Also, it's one thing to ding the seller with negative feedback if a sale cannot be completed, but to assume that a sale has been made but seller is just avoiding fees and take commission anyway?

If you read the fine print, Ebay states not that it is charging you a final value fee when an auction is cancelled. But that it is charging you a cancellation fee equal to your final value fee. And that this fee is retaliatory, due to the harm that your action has on the Ebay marketplace and subsequently their business.

I would say that the safe bet would simply be to disallow, as you put it, "fraud-ridden" countries from bidding on your auctions.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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If you read the fine print, Ebay states not that it is charging you a final value fee when an auction is cancelled. But that it is charging you a cancellation fee equal to your final value fee. And that this fee is retaliatory, due to the harm that your action has on the Ebay marketplace and subsequently their business.

I would say that the safe bet would simply be to disallow, as you put it, "fraud-ridden" countries from bidding on your auctions.

Who actually believes that the "cancellation fee" which is somehow exactly equal to the "final value fee" is anything other than a semantic change from "we want our commission even in sales that don't actually happen"?

If Ebay really wanted to penalize the harm that uncompleted sales do to them, they should charge a "cancellation fee" - the exact same amount as their "final value fee" to buyers that back out too yes? This would be 100% fair and proportional.

But it won't happen. Because Ebay wants the most buyers possible. Even deadbeats, scammers, and complete wastes of time. Because maybe some of them will pay at least some of the time. And get off completely scot free while sellers do not get refunded their listing fee upgrades on a sale that was never paid for.
Edited:
 
sgrossma
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I also do believe that buyer's that don't pay get a strike, and there is a limit to how many strikes they can get before their accounts are closed.
 
Modest_Proposal
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sgrossma sgrossma
I also do believe that buyer's that don't pay get a strike, and there is a limit to how many strikes they can get before their accounts are closed.

Not quite. They do get a strike. But that strike is internally kept.

And if you are given three of them within a year (or is it two years?), then you will be disallowed from bidding on certain sellers' auctions. The ones who click a box that disallows buyers with strikes from bidding.
 
Modest_Proposal
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
Who actually believes that the "cancellation fee" which is somehow exactly equal to the "final value fee" is anything other than a semantic change from "we want our commission even in sales that don't actually happen"?

If Ebay really wanted to penalize the harm that uncompleted sales do to them, they should charge a "cancellation fee" - the exact same amount as their "final value fee" to buyers that back out too yes? This would be 100% fair and proportional.

But it won't happen. Because Ebay wants the most buyers possible. Even deadbeats, scammers, and complete wastes of time. Because maybe some of them will pay at least some of the time. And get off completely scot free while sellers do not get refunded their listing fee upgrades on a sale that was never paid for.

I thought we were all in agreement. Sellers should be punished. Buyers should be punished.

Whether they should be punished equally depends on why the penalty is there in the first place. Is it penalty for loss of business? Or for being a stinky no-no bad person.

If it's for loss of business: It seems obvious to me that the long-term damages taken from withdrawn listings would be disproportionate to the long-term damages taken from withdrawn bids. What those imbalances are, I do not know. But there must be an imbalance. And so the retaliation would be expected to be different.

If it's because they are stinky no-no bad people: Then yes - both sides should be equally punished.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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sgrossma sgrossma
I also do believe that buyer's that don't pay get a strike, and there is a limit to how many strikes they can get before their accounts are closed.
Yes, they get an "unpaid item strike" if you open an "unpaid item case" against them (after 3 days). This is the only way you get your insertion fees back (but not your listing upgrade fees)

If they decide not to pay, and then cancel the order, they don't get an unpaid item strike. I.e. they are only penalized if they don't pay, don't, tell you they want to cancel, and you open a case against them - if they have the decency to tell you they want to cancel, or if you don't open a case against them, they are not penalized.

The only practical use of the "unpaid item strike" is to get you insertion fees back, and to be able to block non-paying buyers on your listings (its an option). Since I already block buyers with unpaid item strikes, and still get a large amount of non-paying buyers, it means that this is not an effective deterrent. Either because non-paying buyers ask to cancel (and therefore not get unpaid item strikes), or because sellers do not pursue penalizing these bad actors.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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Modest_Proposal Modest_Proposal
I thought we were all in agreement. Sellers should be punished. Buyers should be punished.

Whether they should be punished equally depends on why the penalty is there in the first place. Is it penalty for loss of business? Or for being a stinky no-no bad person.

If it's for loss of business: It seems obvious to me that the long-term damages taken from withdrawn listings would be disproportionate to the long-term damages taken from withdrawn bids. What those imbalances are, I do not know. But there must be an imbalance. And so the retaliation would be expected to be different.

If it's because they are stinky no-no bad people: Then yes - both sides should be equally punished.

I think "damage to the marketplace" is 100% the same whether it's the seller or buyer that is not able to complete the agreement. Therefore the penalty must be 100% the same.

But come on, you can't even leave negative feedback to buyers, for whatever reason? Unfairness is built into the system.
 
mr_yossarian
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Didn't go through all posts but I can tell you as a buyer: I'm fed up with cancelled auctions where sellers take advantage of side offers to sell outside of ebay. I'm happy if they can force sellers to stick to their auctions. Now they should work on buyers who cancel bids, we will be fine then.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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mr_yossarian mr_yossarian
Didn't go through all posts but I can tell you as a buyer: I'm fed up with cancelled auctions where sellers take advantage of side offers to sell outside of ebay. I'm happy if they can force sellers to stick to their offers. Now they should work on buyers who cancel bids, we will be fine then.
👍
 
Modest_Proposal
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
I think "damage to the marketplace" is 100% the same whether it's the seller or buyer that is not able to complete the agreement. Therefore the penalty must be 100% the same.

But come on, you can't even leave negative feedback to buyers, for whatever reason? Unfairness is built into the system.

To claim that the long term damages caused by sellers retracting their auctions are exactly the same as the long term damages caused by buyers retracting their bids is to claim that Ebay is especially punishing sellers completely arbitrarily.

Mr_Yossarian: Is that an MGB behind you in your avatar?
 
mr_yossarian
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
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I mean it's just about sticking to a contract you signed, but obviously ethics in business are deteriorating like in real life. And now tell me someone we don't need regulation where too many individuals don't feel obliged to anything, anywhere and especially in this thing called internet. A totally different discussion but I felt like adding this.
 
mr_yossarian
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To claim that the long term damages caused by sellers retracting their auctions are exactly the same as the long term damages caused by buyers retracting their bids is to claim that Ebay is punishing sellers completely arbitrarily.

Mr_Yossarian: Is that an MGB behind you in your avatar?
Close, its a '69 Spitfire.
 
jimmyd13
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I have the solution to all of this!!!!

EBay reduces their seller fees from 10% to 5%. They then add a buyer's premium of 5%. In the event of any cancellation, eBay refunds the fee of the party not at fault.

That won't affect anyone's business ... right?
 
WatchVaultNYC
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To claim that the long term damages caused by sellers retracting their auctions are exactly the same as the long term damages caused by buyers retracting their bids is to claim that Ebay is punishing sellers completely arbitrarily.
No of course it's not arbitrary. Its 100% thought out and calculated. Calculated to be unfair:

Ebay wants as much traffic as possible on the website, therefore it is removing all semblance of buyer accountability because it turns buyers off when they are held accountable for bad actions. Ebay said practically this exact same thing when they removed the ability to leave negative feedback 10 years ago. Ebay goal of keeping large potential buyer pool - done.

For many sellers, Ebay also knows that there is no viable alternative, so it can be more onerous. Not able to leave feedback, not refunding listing fees on canceled orders, taking commission on shipping costs, and now taking commission on unconsummated sales? What is a seller going to do? Sell on competing platforms? The only viable competitor is Amazon, and there is a very high barrier of entry to that platform. So Ebay knows sellers will "suck it up".

Think about it, if Amazon can't keep commission on a non-completed sale, and Ebay can, wouldn't you think everyone will move to selling on Amazon and abandon Ebay? It's not happening because for many, many sellers, this is not an option because the barriers to entry into Amazon are too high.

I'm one who makes rational business decisions. And I'm not abandoning Ebay because the audience is to large to ignore. But to keep Ebay as a viable selling platform for me, this is the #1 thing I'm going to do - raise prices to cover additional losses from sales that cannot be completed for various reasons 100% of the time does not include "side deals" or "getting a higher offer elsewhere", where Ebay now insists they get a cut out of the sale than never happened. Guess who pays in the end?
 
Archer
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
I think "damage to the marketplace" is 100% the same whether it's the seller or buyer that is not able to complete the agreement. Therefore the penalty must be 100% the same.

Not sure I agree. If a winning bidder backs out, I believe the seller has the opportunity to make a second chance offer to the next highest bidder and still make the sale. If a seller backs out, then everyone who bid loses out, unless the seller is completing the sale outside of eBay of course...

Having said that though, I am fully supportive of making the penalties equal for either sellers or buyers who back out.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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Archer Archer
Not sure I agree. If a winning bidder backs out, I believe the seller has the opportunity to make a second chance offer to the next highest bidder and still make the sale. If a seller backs out, then everyone who bid loses out, unless the seller is completing the sale outside of eBay of course...

Having said that though, I am fully supportive of making the penalties equal for either sellers or buyers who back out.
Not talking about auctions, talking about BINs or "Best Offers" - a fact I may have omitted since I rarely do auctions
 
ICONO
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mr_yossarian mr_yossarian
Close, its a '69 Spitfire.

Dear God !! …………you understand the joys of Lucas Electrics then !……always a ‘toss up’ if it starts

I have a ‘67 Etype Series 1 1/2 2+2 with the same key initiated, single button start

Incidentally it is possible to circumvent EBay monitoring of Buyer / Seller or Seller / Buyer communication by logging onto EBay from a Country with much tougher Digital Data Protection laws

I have, in the past, opened conversations with Sellers ( to see if there is an opportunity to see the piece ), by logging onto ( for example ) EBay Germany, and sending a message from there

I know some people may frown upon such communication.......but often it is the difference between Winning…… & Whining

And there seems to be enough whining in this thread already…
 
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