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Ebay Can Now Take Their Cut Even If You Don't Sell

Tony C.
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jimmyd13 jimmyd13
However, eBay seem to have lost sight of the fact that they were supposed to operate in the role of Agent for both the buyer and the seller. Their changes to their Terms and Conditions have steadily become more onerous to the seller while they have failed to add, or indeed removed, any reciprocating Duty of Care to the seller. EBay seems to have forgotten that the seller is their customer and not the buyer. With the current set up, the buyer is the customer of the seller and eBay is merely the point of sale. It is not logical to alienate your customer to benefit some third party and expect your customer to keep returning.

I know a number of people who sell on eBay. I know individuals who are "PowerSellers" and other dealers who conduct many thousands of pounds worth of business through eBay each month. There are quiet grumblings from all of them about the regular changes to Terms, particularly over the last few months. All of them are removing listings from the site or not listing certain items. Some are actively changing their business plan. While none have the faintest intention of leaving eBay all are certainly taking steps to limit their liability.

Be in no doubt that this will noticeably affect the bottom line of both the platform and its sellers. It's little surprise that Instagram is growing so quickly with regard to items available for sale.

This is actually quite close, in some respects, to what is happening to smaller Amazon sellers.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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Sellers can cancel listings and get commission skimmed, listing fees lost, and buyers can leave negative feedback - even if the reason is not fee avoidance

Buyers can back out of a completed auction or listing and face almost no consequences. You can't even leave negative feedback to buyers for any reason at all.

Now is this because there is a prevalance of scam sellers victimizing buyers? My data points to the opposite

First picture: Number of Ebay sales - 6, number of non-paying buyers - 3

deadbeat2.jpg


Second picture: number of cancellations 6, % buyer requested - 100%

deadbeat1.jpg


50% of sales, canceled even before payment. 100% because buyer backs out.

I am sure forum peeps personally are not included in this generalization, but half of Ebay buyers for the type of watches I sell are deadbeats. And I just showed you the data that proves it.

Seller eats all the lost listing costs, lost time, and unfairly - "final value fees" even in a situation where a canceled item is not even sold anywhere.

Buyer gets away scot free if they back out - not even getting negative feedback for the lost time and money they caused the seller.

I am not getting out of Ebay, heck they gave me a $3M selling limit. But its a necessary evil - with a stress on "evil".
 
WatchVaultNYC
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BenjaminT BenjaminT
An auction is an auction which is an auction.

It's the character of an auction that neither seller nor bidder can change their mind, and that offer as well as bids are binding.
There are reserves if you need to achieve a minimum price.
There is no point in auctioning a piece which is available through other channels but besting the bidders.
I have been hating this practice, pursued by some sellers here as well, for a long time and it was not legal by ebays terms and conditions before. So I appreciate that ebay is pushing back on it - even if their motivation is pure greed.

In an Ebay auction, only sellers are penalized if they do not follow through. Bidders can change their mind at any point with absolutely no penalty. So your argument is moot.
 
sgrossma
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One solution is buy-it-now with best offer feature - and require immediate payment to end a listing.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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sgrossma sgrossma
One solution is buy-it-now with best offer feature - and require immediate payment to end a listing.
Thanks for taking the time to think about it, but you can't require immediate payment if you have a "best offer". So unless your buyer pays your asking, a buyer can take a listing down when you accept a "best offer", and then not follow through with payment. Listing fees and upgrades still gone.
 
sgrossma
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
Thanks for taking the time to think about it, but you can't require immediate payment if you have a "best offer". So unless your buyer pays your asking, a buyer can take a listing down when you accept a "best offer", and then not follow through with payment. Listing fees and upgrades still gone.
Sorry - correct
 
Archer
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
In an Ebay auction, only sellers are penalized if they do not follow through. Bidders can change their mind at any point with absolutely no penalty. So your argument is moot.

Interesting how buyers who back out are always "deadbeats" yet any seller who backs out gets the benefit of the doubt, and eBay should have to prove that it wasn't "for a valid reason" whatever that may be. Certainly a seller's perspective...

Backing out of a deal on either side is not right, and as we see all too often auctions for watches people are following here are ended early and completed outside of eBay. There should be penalties for either party backing out IMO, so the only problem I have is that the same penalties are not placed on buyers who back out.

If people are not sure if they want to sell an item, then don't put it up for sale. If they are not going to be happy with the money they might get, either put a reserve, make it a buy it now, or don't sell it on eBay.
 
jimmyd13
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
Thanks for taking the time to think about it, but you can't require immediate payment if you have a "best offer". So unless your buyer pays your asking, a buyer can take a listing down when you accept a "best offer", and then not follow through with payment. Listing fees and upgrades still gone.
This is the type of listing that has caused my account to be " restricted". A buyer asked to come see the item before buying - something I thought was perfectly reasonable. EBay thinks otherwise (see my earlier post).

Only this last weekend I was talking to two dealers. One sold a painting this week and has a return request because it was damaged in transit (buyer's statement). The other explained that he has recently seen a number of claims for broken ceramics. Now, these items are delicate but are incredibly well packed (we're not just talking bubble wrap and boxes but specially designed packaging crates). His theory is that the buyers decided they don't want the item so, instead of incurring costs for themselves of returning a properly described, faultless item, they simply smash them and then lodge a dispute. EBay refuses to help the seller in any way (such as recording the buyer's activity) and the seller loses out either being forced to repay directly or by having his insurance premiums increase.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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Archer Archer
If people are not sure if they want to sell an item, then don't put it up for sale. If they are not going to be happy with the money they might get, either put a reserve, make it a buy it now, or don't sell it on eBay.

Yes, the same way that when buyers make an offer, or buy an item outright, they should pay for it. If they think they will not be able to pay for it, or change their mind, they shouldn't make an offer at all - or worse, make an offer and then back out of paying for it.

And if there are penalties that already exist for the seller for backing out, proportional penalties should also exist for the buyer. For starters, I would like the ability to again call out the bad buyers for their behavior - by leaving negative feedback.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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jimmyd13 jimmyd13
This is the type of listing that has caused my account to be " restricted". A buyer asked to come see the item before buying - something I thought was perfectly reasonable. EBay thinks otherwise (see my earlier post).

Only this last weekend I was talking to two dealers. One sold a painting this week and has a return request because it was damaged in transit (buyer's statement). The other explained that he has recently seen a number of claims for broken ceramics. Now, these items are delicate but are incredibly well packed (we're not just talking bubble wrap and boxes but specially designed packaging crates). His theory is that the buyers decided they don't want the item so, instead of incurring costs for themselves of returning a properly described, faultless item, they simply smash them and then lodge a dispute. EBay refuses to help the seller in any way (such as recording the buyer's activity) and the seller loses out either being forced to repay directly or by having his insurance premiums increase.
Oh that friggin sucks, and is my greatest fear - that a buyer will trash a watch because they did not want to pay for return fees
 
GGG964
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I recently sold a few watches on eBay, and had 2 buyers back out. When I noticed that eBay still took their fee, I simply called them and they credited me the final value fees. I even had one fraudulent buyer that they caught and deleted his account - but they did not credit me the final value fee!! Rang them up, and got the fee back immediately.
 
Archer
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WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
Yes, the same way that when buyers make an offer, or buy an item outright, they should pay for it. If they think they will not be able to pay for it, or change their mind, they shouldn't make an offer at all - or worse, make an offer and then back out of paying for it.

And if there are penalties that already exist for the seller for backing out, proportional penalties should also exist for the buyer. For starters, I would like the ability to again call out the bad buyers for their behavior - by leaving negative feedback.

Yes, which is what I actually said...

WatchVaultNYC WatchVaultNYC
And in the info I just shared, close to 100% of the time its the buyer that backs out.

They key thing being "the info you just shared"...how representative that is of eBay as a whole is unclear.
 
Modest_Proposal
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Archer is exactly right.

Backing out from an auction from either side is wrong and both sides should be given penalties for doing so. So stop focusing on how wrong it is that buyers face consequences and focus instead on why buyers face little consequence.

For those of you who think that Ebay is unmerciful, and as has been pointed out:

Ebay allows a seller to cancel an auction once per year without penalty. Why are you ignoring this? If you are an honest seller who, once in a blue moon makes a huge error, you will not be punished.
 
WatchVaultNYC
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Archer Archer
Yes, which is what I actually said....
Which I agree to wholeheartedly! Just wanted to emphasize by repeating and rephrasing!

Archer Archer
They key thing being "the info you just shared"...how representative that is of eBay as a whole is unclear.
Which is 100% true, but at least this is 1 data point vs no data point. Or worse, speculation on the seller vs buyer misbehavior on Ebay that masquarades as fact
 
jimmyd13
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GGG964 GGG964
I recently sold a few watches on eBay, and had 2 buyers back out. When I noticed that eBay still took their fee, I simply called them and they credited me the final value fees. I even had one fraudulent buyer that they caught and deleted his account - but they did not credit me the final value fee!! Rang them up, and got the fee back immediately.
But here's the thing:

Should you make a sale and the buyer doesn't pay; or, should you accept an offer and the buyer "vanishes" , recent changes to the Terms and Conditions permit eBay to take those fees based on what they think the final value should be. There is no appeals process.

The seller is being forced to accept the risk of the buyer's actions.

I will happily warranty my own behaviour but being asked to guarantee someone else's is ridiculous. I believe these changes to terms would be challengable in UK courts, but eBay deliberately places itself in another jurisdiction (Eire in my case).
 
WatchVaultNYC
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jimmyd13 jimmyd13
Should you make a sale and the buyer doesn't pay; or, should you accept an offer and the buyer "vanishes" , recent changes to the Terms and Conditions permit eBay to take those fees based on what they think the final value should be. There is no appeals process.

The seller is being forced to accept the risk of the buyer's actions.

I will happily warranty my own behaviour but being asked to guarantee someone else's is ridiculous. I believe these changes to terms would be challengable in UK courts, but eBay deliberately places itself in another jurisdiction (Eire in my case).

Which means sellers must charge higher prices, in order to compensate for the losses that are due to buyer bad buyer behavior which ebay allows as a policy. In the end, the people who pays for bad buyer behavior are the "good" buyers.
 
Modest_Proposal
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jimmyd13 jimmyd13
But here's the thing:

Should you make a sale and the buyer doesn't pay; or, should you accept an offer and the buyer "vanishes" , recent changes to the Terms and Conditions permit eBay to take those fees based on what they think the final value should be. There is no appeals process.

The seller is being forced to accept the risk of the buyer's actions.

I will happily warranty my own behaviour but being asked to guarantee someone else's is ridiculous. I believe these changes to terms would be challengable in UK courts, but eBay deliberately places itself in another jurisdiction (Eire in my case).

Now, I'm just a country boy. And I don't know much about that there legal stuffin'.

But what I can say is that I have sold hundreds of items on Ebay and have had perhaps dozens of non-payments. And in every single case - leading up to last week, Ebay has always and automatically refunded my final value fees if a sale was cancelled due to non-payment. There isn't even a process. It just happens instantly.
 
GGG964
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jimmyd13 jimmyd13
But here's the thing:

Should you make a sale and the buyer doesn't pay; or, should you accept an offer and the buyer "vanishes" , recent changes to the Terms and Conditions permit eBay to take those fees based on what they think the final value should be. There is no appeals process.

The seller is being forced to accept the risk of the buyer's actions.

I will happily warranty my own behaviour but being asked to guarantee someone else's is ridiculous. I believe these changes to terms would be challengable in UK courts, but eBay deliberately places itself in another jurisdiction (Eire in my case).

Wow. I must have just missed the cut off for this since that happened to me in June/August. Thanks for the information. I think the smart plan is to sell elsewhere!
 
gatorcpa
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jimmyd13 jimmyd13
To that end, it prohibits certain items that are illegal in any jurisdiction (the one that surprised me was demonitised Cuban coins
This is because those coins are illegal to own in the USA if they were minted after 1962 (I think).
gatorcpa
 
WatchVaultNYC
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Modest_Proposal Modest_Proposal
Now, I'm just a country boy. And I don't know much about that there legal stuffin'.

But what I can say is that I have sold hundreds of items on Ebay and have had perhaps dozens of non-payments. And in every single case - leading up to last week, Ebay has always and automatically refunded my final value fees if a sale was cancelled due to non-payment. There isn't even a process. It just happens instantly.
Have you needed to cancel recently?

I have an order from a guy who has an address overseas that I can't ship to safely (i.e. can't insure a package to that location). So I had to cancel his order.

If the buyer agrees to the cancellation, I'll get my final value fees back. If the buyer does not agree to the cancellation, no sale is made, but Ebay keeps the final value fees(!!!!) - This is the first time I have encountered this
 
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