Does Patek still use Alligator leather for their straps?

Archer

Interesting - where does this information come from? I order a lot of "Alligator" straps - they are almost always identified as Alligator Mississippiensis as in the example I posted on page 1.

cvalue13

Not to butt in, but since I had seconded the notion:

I personally didn't intend (or take @Wryfox 's comment to mean), that specific straps you've seen listed as Alligator Missi. weren't Missi. Instead, that many luxury products sold as "alligator" are not from Missi., but instead its cousin.

Here's a leather retailer describing the widespread use S American caiman skins:

"However, alligator skin is not the only crocodilian species used for high fashion. Caiman crocodiles are also used in the fashion industry by many. Hailing from South America and Central America, the caiman crocodile’s skin is taken only from farms... While both skins are very desirable for high fashion, they are not the same... Caiman skin is used by brands in high luxury - just not quite ultra luxury like the alligator skin. Handbags and cowboy boots and other ladies’ footwear are common uses for the caiman skin."

And here's another post discussing the resulting semantic or marketing issue:

"Although caiman has its place in the market, mislabeling has become such a problem that the buyer need beware. Many caiman products are marked crocodile or alligator and sold at the high prices of these classic leathers. Alligator is sometimes marked crocodile and crocodile marked alligator. Some of this is a cultural difference; Americans tend to call all "crocodile" alligator, and Europeans tend to call "alligator" crocodile. Upon close inspection, one will find that some large pieces have mixed leather in them. In the past it was fashionable to make a purse with alligator on one side and crocodile on the other. Today, due to product cost, it is not uncommon to see a purse with alligator or crocodile on the front and back and caiman on the sides with a caiman strap."

Elsewhere in these and other posts it notes the difference in hide sizes, the degree of scale relief, and differences in the skin qualities.

Because of all that, while I am sure there are high end brands using U.S. alligator for straps, I would guess (but don't know) that for any such straps they must be using very juvenile alligator skins - otherwise, the desired type of backstrap scale relief pattern might hardly show up as anything other than one, big, flat scale on a piece as small as a strap. This is also why the quote above mentions that even true alligator handbags will often have caiman straps, etc.

Even for something as large as cowboy boots, achieving the desirable alligator-like backstrap scale relief across the boot requires either a very small alligator or - more commonly - a caiman.

I have meanwhile definitely seen many WRUW posts of watches on "alligator" straps that were almost certainly caiman (due to both the size of scale relief but also the calcification of the scales).

Anywho, anyone insistent on having actual U.S. alligator beware. 😵‍💫

PS: In a former life I was a herpetologist/reptile nerd

lexieb007

^ one would hope that's the case... then again the wildlife illegal trade "has it's way" in so many other situations... particularly when there is large financial reward at stake. These straps are expensive....

Archer

So although I know and understand that Caiman skins are used for leather goods, this doesn't yet say anything about the vast majority of straps being sold as alligator actually being made from SA Caiman skins, which is what I'm asking about

lexieb007

Watch straps have tiny scale patterns. So if a customer buys an "alligator" strap from a Patek or Omega AD...lets say it's replaced in a registered official AD service center, that customer can assume and be assured that it's guaranteed 100% baby (aka "juvenile") mississippi alligator? (and not some other species)?

lexieb007

I mean does CITES allow the capture and harvesting of baby alligators? Wouldn't there be a size limit? Surely all baby alligators would have to come from farms?

asrnj77

Yeah I don’t see sturgeon but they do have salmon and not many people have hippo these days

P pongster

Is this the same picture? My eyes are getting worse. 😉

Alfista88

I was able to purchase 2 Omega alligator straps in California in 2020, directly from the Swatch retail network. 1 from the SF Tourbillion, and 1 from the OC Omega boutique. Majority of the Breguet at the Tourbillon had alligator straps as well.

The sales staff at both mentioned there's never been any enforcement on that contested California ban on alligator.

For those who haven't tried it: I highly, highly recommend the alligator cheesecake at Jacques-Imo's when in New Orleans. Heaven on a fork.

lexieb007

Just curious...
On new pieces....?
Because Alligator mississippiensis is (still) on the EU endangered wildlife list...
Is it not?