Do you tell people their watches are frankens?

bradurani · Sep 21, 2020

When you see someone post a photo of their watch on Instagram or forums like this one and it has an aftermarket dial, do you kindly let them know? What if the post is announcing the watch as a new acquisition?

I see this with vintage Seikos pretty often lately, especially yellow 6139 Pogues. I used to hang out mostly on SCWF where the members know the difference, but on Insta, here and other forums, people don't, and I'm pretty sure at least some of them would be surprised to know!

Maybe it's better to not spoil someone's party? Now that even the frakens are routinely going for over $1,000 on eBay the stakes are higher

WhereMadnessLies · Sep 21, 2020

I personally don't unless the person has specifically asked for opinions on the originality of the piece. Even if they have I won't give an opinion unless I am 100% confident in what I am saying.

I must say, I have found it a little odd that people do point these things out without their opinion being asked for. It's a bit like pointing out the fact a random passer by wearing a fake designer jumper in the middle of the street to everyone else in the vicinity.

wristpirate · Sep 21, 2020

This is a tricky one. They may already know that their watch is a franken and be happy with that. You might be seen as an irritation pointing out what you think are flaws.

Recently a friend approached me as he thought one of my pieces could be a redial. I had purchased it through a dealer and went back to them about it and after some further research it turns out the watch is correct. I really appreciated my friend highlighting his thoughts to me as I know he did it with the best of intentions.

Some of us are always keen to learn more.

Ree · Sep 21, 2020

Only if it's someone I've talked to with before.
Case in point:
I once informed a fellow Instagramer after he posted his new acquisition of 3570.31 Mitsukoshi. I noticed the bezel isn't period correct. Told him about it (wary as lots of Mitsu mods are out there). He then asked the seller (previous owner) and, voila, seller said bezel was indeed replaced during service. He didn't know such old bezel would be wanted and then proceeded to hand it over to him.
Now he has an all-correct Mitsu

Engee · Sep 21, 2020

Maybe someone doesn't enough know to ask? If I came on here showing off my new franken I think I'd want someone to point it out to me, in a nice way. I won't learn otherwise. Joining and participating in a forum like this implies that I'm sufficiently interested in watches to want to know if I've made a mistake. Joining a facebook group or posting your watch pics on instagram may be a different thing where people don't care quite as much or don't want to know.

Better still though, as this is something of a minefield, and you seem to know, I'd really appreciate a post showing what to look for when deciding on whether or not to buy a piece like a yellow dial Pogue. Of course, you may not wish to share your hard learned knowledge, but this is the equivalent of the "give a man a fish or teach him how to use a rod" question. I'd like to be taught how to spot a dodgy watch rather than coming on here posting pictures every time I see something I'm interested in to ask if it's OK or not.

bradurani · Sep 21, 2020

There are some tough edge cases here. Sometimes you can look at someone's profile and guess from their other pieces that they're diligent collectors and might want to know.
The really tough one is when someone is proudly showing off their new acquisition, because they still may be able to get a refund.
With the Seikos, what I see is folks who aren't mainly Seiko people buying iconic vintage pieces as an entree into the brand, and getting hosed. It's a tough brand to get right because some models, like the Pogues, are 90% frankens on eBay. Few reputable dealers sell them because they're too inexpensive and something of a niche, with their own separate world of parts suppliers and restorers making finding trustworthy sellers especially hard.

pw92676 · Sep 21, 2020

I tend to stay out of other peoples business. Wouldn’t tell someone that I suspected replacement parts on their watch or their wife...not my place to say!

Evitzee · Sep 21, 2020

Unless you are specifically asked you should keep your opinions to yourself. Same with pricing, no need to get involved with the price paid.

STANDY · Sep 21, 2020

7/10 1st posts are "how did I do" or "is it fake" so these guys usually get told very quick.

Inherited from my -------- usually get told also, but in a gentle way most of the time. Sometimes a bit too quick.
( one member who is not with us anymore used to blurt it out a bit too quick and often which annoyed me enough to comment several times and he was wrong a fair bit )

Most collectors who have been around for a while just don't post them if they know or even have them.

In the FS thread with a price of a non redial, there is usually a thread within a few hours.

Speedmasters it's a whole different story and rules of above go out the window the minute the picture is posted 😉

RonJ · Sep 21, 2020

It happened to me and I will always be grateful it did.
A few years before I joined this forum, an expert commented on a picture of my watch I had posted on facebook.
It was a short subtle comment but it implied something wasn't right about my watch.

It led to a series of PM messages between us and he was gracious enough to point out the details that were incorrect and provided links to correct watch pictures for comparison.
He also provided some sources to buy the correct replacement part and the estimated cost involved.

I was not offended and really appreciated him taking the time to share his knowledge with me.

Dan S · Sep 21, 2020

I never get involved on IG, but on OF, pointing out serious originality issues is usually appropriate.

However, there are nuances. If a newbie comes on showing a new purchase, with the usual "look at this beauty that I just won on eBay", then it can be beneficial to let them know it's a fake, since they can then return it. We see this all the time. On the other hand, if someone comes on and posts a family heirloom, then I think it's better just to stay quiet as long as it's not a total fake. On the third hand, if they indicate that they are looking to sell said heirloom, then they should be told about serious issues so that they describe it honestly in their listings.

I think one needs to use some discretion and common sense in these situations keeping in mind various people's motivations and balancing the pros and cons. Of course, everyone makes up their own mind about that, and there have been cases where someone starts criticizing an heirloom piece, and I am just gritting my teeth, wishing they had kept it to themselves.

Engee · Sep 21, 2020

Evitzee
Unless you are specifically asked you should keep your opinions to yourself. Same with pricing, no need to get involved with the price paid.

Dan S
I think one needs to use some discretion and common sense in these situations keeping in mind various people's motivations and balancing the pros and cons. Of course, everyone makes up their own mind about that, and there have been cases where someone starts criticizing an heirloom piece, and I am just gritting my teeth, wishing they had kept it to themselves.

I hope that if I made any clumsy comments someone would quietly DM me rather than let me make the same mistake again.

Larry S · Sep 21, 2020

I had It done to me early on. The redial critique was wrong and quickly corrected by others members. ( much to my relief) If a poster does not ask for feedback, a pm is better in case, as @Dan S suggests, they can return it.

JwRosenthal · Sep 21, 2020

I think it's a delicate balance like if your partner/spouse is wearing an unflattering piece of clothing- if they didn't ask "how do I look?" Then just go along with it.
When I give feedback on originality, I make damn sure I am right becuase that effects someone business/transaction. If you tell someone that their watch is a franken or a redial and they go back to an ernest seller wanting a refund with misinformation- that's on you.
I love the "is this real" threads as I learn something every time. We can't all be experts on every watch ever made. But yeah, it can get kind of brutal taking the wind out of someone's sails- even if you are just trying to help.

Marsimaxam · Sep 21, 2020

A good analogy, take a woman's purse, she has a Louis Vuitton... do you walk up to her and tell her it's a fake.

Unless an individual asks for your opinion of the item or if they are selling the item in question, regardless of what it is... I'd mind my own business. However, if they ask for your opinion or they are selling a fake, I believe it is perfectly reasonable to tell them the truth. I'd want to know if I asked.

Engee · Sep 21, 2020

Marsimaxam
A good analogy, take a woman's purse, she has a Louis Vuitton... do you walk up to her and tell her it's a fake.

I used to wear a parody Gucci T-shirt. It was so parody it actually read "Goochy" and around the logo it said "Goochy, Goochy Goo". Once I was wearing it and someone came up to me in order to smugly inform me it was a fake. I feigned shock and and asked if they were sure.

Faz · Sep 21, 2020

Larry S · Sep 21, 2020

Just a reminder that discretion applies to sales posts as well.

Alpha · Sep 21, 2020

Recently a neighbour showed me his Rolex that he had bought last year in Turkey, he was not in to watches but was so happy that I admit I admired it etc. etc.

Redwes25 · Sep 21, 2020

Larry S
Just a reminder that discretion applies to sales posts as well.

On sales post on OF, shouldn't the idea be to tell the mods about the issue so they can handle it and have the listing modified or removed. I think someone saying a watch was all original but you know it is a franken is something that shouldn't be kept hidden.

Do you tell people their watches are frankens?

bradurani

WhereMadnessLies

wristpirate

Ree

Engee

bradurani

pw92676

Evitzee

STANDY

RonJ

Dan S

Engee

Larry S

JwRosenthal

Marsimaxam

Engee

Faz

Larry S

Alpha

Redwes25

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