Do these no. 6 end-links look legit to you?

michael e · Nov 12, 2022

If someone went to all that effort to produce these very, very authentic looking end pieces why would they not have the skill to cover or even not make the marks in the first place? It doesn’t make sense. I’m 99.9% sure these are fine.
Could the marks been made by the machine that puts the curve in? Monday morning machine setter? 😁
How many sets are we talking about? And where are they for sale?

perenowell · Nov 12, 2022

They come from a retired Omega watchmaker personnal stock. He passed away and his stock was sold.
They weren't polished by my source.

i’m sure it was part of a batch with this small issue, and the guy kept it…

M'Bob · Nov 12, 2022

Another interesting feature: see how the placement of the “6” on the sets in question are placed way lower than the other sets:

Interestingly, there are esteemed members with vastly different opinions on both sides of this question. As of yet, there doesn’t appear to be many examples outside the batch for sale that show these unique features. Perhaps others will weigh in with additional examples.

So, do we have a small batch of legitimate end-pieces from perhaps a sub-contacted vendor, with more examples to come? However, if, on the premier Omega forum, we come up with an unusually small number of these, the issue of whether they’re genuine has to be more seriously considered.

Davidt · Nov 12, 2022

I agree with @michael e, no way is someone able to replicate the minute details of genuine 6’s, such as the angle and varying width of the top tail of the 6, and then leave the unusual line intersecting the underside.
Genuine for me.

perenowell · Nov 13, 2022

To - I hope - end a discussion that should have been done in private.

- The 6 are perfect (I took the drawing from this OF thread here)

x620101-7e9dd0cd2bc66669239086653bce48b0.jpg.pagespeed.ic.SblDAryZEL.jpg

- the dimensions are correct
- the sides are well finished
- the global impression is very good
- I bought some sets, and the others members some more for what I know. Some other sets have been sold online before too. It's not just 2 pair of 6.
- If we speak about economy, it doesn't make any sense to spend this much money for the machines, the stamp tool, make tests to make the perfect 6 (and so new tools...), and at the end ruin it with the marks and a low 6 stamp...
... and to sell just a few on a local marketplace and not on Ebay worldwide.
- and I saw one sold by @michael e on an old thread on OF here and here.

x201219-2dfd55437c1d0331601c781c2570afae.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0Qke9fv51h.jpg

A "special" batch or a variation that the watchmaker kept makes perfect sense to me...

M'Bob · Nov 13, 2022

perenowell
To - I hope - end a discussion that should have been done in private.

- The 6 are perfect (I took the drawing from this OF thread here)

- the dimensions are correct
- the sides are well finished
- the global impression is very good
- I bought some sets, and the others members some more for what I know. Some other sets have been sold online before too. It's not just 2 pair of 6.
- If we speak about economy, it doesn't make any sense to spend this much money for the machines, the stamp tool, make tests to make the perfect 6 (and so new tools...), and at the end ruin it with the marks and a low 6 stamp...
... and to sell just a few on a local marketplace and not on Ebay worldwide.
- and I saw one sold by @michael e on an old thread on OF here and here.

A "special" batch or a variation that the watchmaker kept makes perfect sense to me...

I’m sorry you have taken offense to this topic being discussed here on the Forum, but I disagree with your point of view. There are seasoned members here on both sides of this discussion, so needless to say, there is hardly unanimity here. That is precisely why this needed to be explored openly.

Archer · Nov 13, 2022

perenowell
A "special" batch or a variation that the watchmaker kept makes perfect sense to me...

Not to me. Just how did this “special batch” get to one specific watchmaker, and not to others in wide circulation?

dsio · Nov 14, 2022

perenowell
To - I hope - end a discussion that should have been done in private.

- The 6 are perfect (I took the drawing from this OF thread here)

- the dimensions are correct
- the sides are well finished
- the global impression is very good
- I bought some sets, and the others members some more for what I know. Some other sets have been sold online before too. It's not just 2 pair of 6.
- If we speak about economy, it doesn't make any sense to spend this much money for the machines, the stamp tool, make tests to make the perfect 6 (and so new tools...), and at the end ruin it with the marks and a low 6 stamp...
... and to sell just a few on a local marketplace and not on Ebay worldwide.
- and I saw one sold by @michael e on an old thread on OF here and here.

A "special" batch or a variation that the watchmaker kept makes perfect sense to me...

Yea I really don’t think its a discussion to have in private at all, these types of things are what we’ve been discussing here for 11 years and the divergent views on this is really why it needed to happen in a public thread. There have been situations in previous years where basically perfect DON bezels appeared, at mint DON bezel prices initially before it became clear someone was producing them to a high degree of quality so the question is very fair to ask.

I would also note that nobody here has pointed fingers or made assumptions that anyone has been acting in bad faith here, I certainly don’t believe that to be the case and M’Bob has not done so either. I consider the people to have sold them to be entirely honest people. It’s just a matter of how they came to be, whether they have been seen on an actual vintage watch before and what the origin of them given there are quite a few that is the question.

The special batch theory or that they were domestic production somewhere is possible but you would expect them to be in wider circulation and older circulation, which is why I for one would feel much more confident in them if an identically marked set were found on one or more old Speedmasters that have been in collections for a long time, or any photos of similar endlinks that are older than 2021 at least.

perenowell · Nov 14, 2022

M'Bob
I’m sorry you have taken offense to this topic being discussed here on the Forum, but I disagree with your point of view. There are seasoned members here on both sides of this discussion, so needless to say, there is hardly unanimity here. That is precisely why this needed to be explored openly.

There is of course no problem to discuss this here, this is a complex subject and the fact there is a lot of knowledge to take and share on this forum is more than fantastic. If I was misunderstood, my bad.
As I told you, it would have just been appreciated to tell me in the first place and not find out the thread like that. End of this little aside.

About the batch, who knows? It could just have been a production scrap and the guy kept it (my guess). It could be a small batch before it was fix. What do you think about the one Michael had some years ago on a 2998 with the same characteristic ?

perenowell · Nov 14, 2022

dsio
Yea I really don’t think its a discussion to have in private at all, these types of things are what we’ve been discussing here for 11 years and the divergent views on this is really why it needed to happen in a public thread. There have been situations in previous years where basically perfect DON bezels appeared, at mint DON bezel prices initially before it became clear someone was producing them to a high degree of quality so the question is very fair to ask.

I would also note that nobody here has pointed fingers or made assumptions that anyone has been acting in bad faith here, I certainly don’t believe that to be the case and M’Bob has not done so either. I consider the people to have sold them to be entirely honest people. It’s just a matter of how they came to be, whether they have been seen on an actual vintage watch before and what the origin of them given there are quite a few that is the question.

The special batch theory or that they were domestic production somewhere is possible but you would expect them to be in wider circulation and older circulation, which is why I for one would feel much more confident in them if an identically marked set were found on one or more old Speedmasters that have been in collections for a long time, or any photos of similar endlinks that are older than 2021 at least.

I agree, it's totally normal to discuss it. My answer crossed yours. 👍

I guess @michael e can give us some good help here so.

michael e · Nov 14, 2022

@perenowell
Well done on finding that old thread!
For me it confirms 100% that your end pieces are totally genuine and just something we have not noticed before, just like some genuine No 6 end pieces don’t have the two ridges underneath (remember that discussion anyone?)
The 6 itself is the key for me and way back then when my end pieces were discussed the minute details of the 6 itself were not known by many.
So these are the possibilities.
1. The end pieces with the line going through or near the 6 are perfectly correct and are something many of us have not noticed before or thought about but are perfectly fine and authentic.
Or
2. I myself am creating these No6 end pieces and passing them off as the real deal since 2016 but have only sold one end piece so far on line and however many the OP has 😁 Not a very cunning plan though is it?
Below is a closeup of the end piece I sold back in 2016. Notice anything?
The line and the placement of the 6?

M'Bob · Nov 14, 2022

michael e
@perenowell
Well done on finding that old thread!
For me it confirms 100% that your end pieces are totally genuine and just something we have not noticed before, just like some genuine No 6 end pieces don’t have the two ridges underneath (remember that discussion anyone?)
The 6 itself is the key for me and way back then when my end pieces were discussed the minute details of the 6 itself were not known by many.
So these are the possibilities.
1. The end pieces with the line going through or near the 6 are perfectly correct and are something many of us have not noticed before or thought about but are perfectly fine and authentic.
Or
2. I myself am creating these No6 end pieces and passing them off as the real deal since 2016 but have only sold one end piece so far on line and however many the OP has 😁 Not a very cunning plan though is it?
Below is a closeup of the end piece I sold back in 2016. Notice anything?
The line and the placement of the 6?

You of course make some compelling points, and until more examples from disparate collectors appear, we are heading into “besting a dead horse” territory. Nonetheless, I would point out two things: I have been looking at these, both in person and on the Net, for over 30 years, and have more sets than one can justify. Had I seen an obvious line going through an end-piece, at any time, I’m sure my eyebrow would have raised when the number went over two. Three sets, all appearing in a short time frame, would give anyone pause.

Secondly, I’m sure you’ll agree that, while pointing out what tends to make these sets legitimate, does not of course negate the questionable attributes either.

Archer · Nov 14, 2022

M'Bob
Secondly, I’m sure you’ll agree that, while pointing out what tends to make these sets legitimate, does not of course negate the questionable attributes either.

I think in some ways, you can always identify bad fakes, but I'm not sure you can ever say something like these are 100% legit.

michael e · Nov 14, 2022

M'Bob
You of course make some compelling points, and until more examples from disparate collectors appear, we are heading into “besting a dead horse” territory. Nonetheless, I would point out two things: I have been looking at these, both in person and on the Net, for over 30 years, and have more sets than one can justify. Had I seen an obvious line going through an end-piece, at any time, I’m sure my eyebrow would have raised when the number went over two. Three sets, all appearing in a short time frame, would give anyone pause.

Secondly, I’m sure you’ll agree that, while pointing out what tends to make these sets legitimate, does not of course negate the questionable attributes either.

I agree with your points.
If these ends didn’t have those lines there would be no questions would they?
Every so often little things like this come to light, slight variations/details in parts and accessories, it is a crime to dismiss them as fake or incorrect until further research is done. The amount of times I have seen “experts” chime in and claim fake or incorrect is staggering, just because they have never seen something before they immediately call fake!
And once proven wrong you never see them acknowledge their mistake because they take themselves too seriously.
I could be wrong (hardly ever 😀) but if I am I will be back to say so and call myself a plonker 👍

M'Bob · Nov 14, 2022

michael e
I could be wrong (hardly ever 😀) but if I am I will be back to say so and call myself a plonker 👍

Had to look that one up. I’ve actually been collecting, and looking at pictures of plonkers for over 30 years. I’m loathe to tell you this: you are not a genuine plonker. Despite the line going through your midsection…

Arancio601 · Nov 23, 2022

Ok so this thread got me curious about what these are worth. Is this really in the ballpark?! And I thought DON bezels were expensive

Dash1 · Nov 23, 2022

Arancio601
Ok so this thread got me curious about what these are worth. Is this really in the ballpark?! And I thought DON bezels were expensive

Those aren’t any ordinary no.6 end links, they’re single notch ones which are worth more, but still listed at probably twice what they would actually sell for…

Do these no. 6 end-links look legit to you?

michael e

perenowell

M'Bob

Davidt

perenowell

M'Bob

Archer

dsio

perenowell

perenowell

michael e

M'Bob

Archer

michael e

M'Bob

Arancio601

Dash1

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