Could this be more problems than it’s worth 105.012-66 CB

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I have been on the look out for a pre moon for some time now. I thought I found one but it raised more questions than it answered so my search continued. In my constant searches of the internet I have seen this one. It’s on chrono24 but via a private seller. I believe it to be a CB case but the seller does not say. I have compared it to the moon watch only book and it looks to be right and has rather sharp edges. The other good points are that the bezel looks to be in great condition, the pushers and the crown look to be correct and I believe a 1039 bracelet also.
On to the bad parts the chrono hand has some discolouration to it that looks worryingly like rust that paired with the lume turning black. From what I have read is possibly due to moisture ingress certainly worries me. I have also noticed that the 12hr chrono hand is at the 2oclock position in all the pictures when the rest are set to 0. I have read that it’s possible that the hand can slip and just needs re setting but with the possible water ingress and lack of movement pictures I am worried that it could be more serious than that. I have asked for more pictures and some of the movement but as of yet have had none from the seller. It is advertised at £7500 which I think is a fairly competitive price if all was well. But as a novice speedmaster enthusiast I would like to utilise the collective knowledge of this forum before I invest anymore time chasing the seller and more importantly money in to something that could cause a lot of headaches down the line.
Thanks in advance.

(I know it’s impossible to tell what exactly is wrong with the 12hr hand without taking it apart but there maybe common issues that cause it to be out of place)
 
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It's cheap because of the moldy lume IMO.

The hour counter is probably a result of "chrono creep". Just google it, it's widely documented. It can be repaired. The dial can't.
 
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Probably the picture, but shouldn’t this ref. Have a stepped dial
 
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It's cheap because of the moldy lume IMO.

I may be wrong but would a good relume fix this. I know this can be frowned upon but I’m not too fused by original lume with it being at the cheaper end of the market.
 
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Yes, you can have it re-lumed. That's probably the only plausible path for this dial TBH.
 
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dial & crown are different,no inner and serial number 1st digit shots. just my opinion.
 
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7500 GBP is fairly steep for a watch in this condition imo. Even if this were a straightlug with a 1035 rather than 1039, that would still be a pretty steep ask. Also, does the seller not have any movement shots?
 
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Also, does the seller not have any movement shots?

I have asked the seller for some movement shots but as of yet he hasn’t.
From what I can gather it was his fathers watch that was bought new in 1967 and has been in a draw for the last 20 or so years. So I don’t think the seller has the tools to open it up and these days dropping in to your local watchmakers isn’t quite as easy as it could be.
 
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😲, when I hear the classical story of the "watch of my father"...
Of course it can be true.
But it always switches on a little warning to me.
The case seems sharp.
You should insist to get movement pics, IMHO.
Edited:
 
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For a watch that was worn and then put in a drawer, the bracelet is sure nice and shiny, without a single scuff on the clasp. 🙄
 
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Yes the lume is mouldy.

but this is the cheapest near original watch on the market. There is a massive difference between this watch (apparently original apart from the crown and with poor lume) and a dealer prepped watch, or a 105012 that has been through several collectors hands, each having added a little “improvement” . I am not sure I can find a cheaper watch on sale at the moment worth having.

as always it’s about finding a watch that strikes the balance between interest, attraction and value.

This watch does have very strong plus points: the case showing the facets and the fat neck pushers. If these are bad there is nothing you can do for a 105.012-66CB.

it also has what looks like a good bracelet.

it comes from a private owner and it does look genuine. I am not sure what everyone expects to find for £7,500 today that will be better than this. Sure there are better watches, but they are more money - much more.

This watch I would buy and immediately send to Simon Freese as this is exactly the kind of watch he can do wonders with. You need a new old crown, and I would agree that sending the dial and handset to James H would be what I would do. James is a high precision tool who needs strong guidance as to what you want to end up with. You need to know what you want and give him clear guidance, or you won’t get what you want. He is the best re lumer I know outside Italy, and I think now he is familiar with the “not too new” look that goes best.

Unless the movement is rusted badly, I would not worry - asking a private seller to open a watch is fraught with problems - he might damage it, or take it to a watchmaker who spoils your deal. I never ask for movement shots from a private seller, I make an informed gamble, and adjust my offer according to my intuition.

Things to watch for are the genuineness of the private seller - a phone call usually settles that. The risks you have are that the movement is either non speedmaster or damaged beyond repair. You might be able to buy subject to an extract, but every condition you lay on the deal might increase the chance you lose to someone else, who comes along and reaps the benefit of all the research you push the seller into doing.

I would guess the whole watch after service and re lume might come in at £8,500

Not much in speedmasters is perfect. And if it is, a top 105.012 with bracelet is over £18,000- 20,000

So it’s all about compromise and for me if I was going to find a sub 10k watch, this would definitely be in the running.

it’s definitely worth look at
 
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Yes the lume is mouldy.......

.......So it’s all about compromise and for me if I was going to find a sub 10k watch, this would definitely be in the running.

it’s definitely worth look at

I don't collect or even own a single Omega but I always look forward to reading your posts @Spacefruit

As an enthusiast who is clearly far more publicly visible than most keyboard warriors here (myself included) I find the regularity with which you stick your neck out something to really aspire to in my own collecting life.
 
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H Hwills
I have been on the look out for a pre moon

Not the typical reference for a first pre moon Speedmaster

How about a 145.012? 😀
 
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This watch I would buy and immediately send to Simon Freese as this is exactly the kind of watch he can do wonders with. You need a new old crown, and I would agree that sending the dial and handset to James H would be what I would do.

Before starting this thread I had been looking at James H’s work on instagram and also Simon Freese website with the intention of following that route.

I make an informed gamble, and adjust my offer according to my intuition.

The issue is being new to this I very much don’t have a good intuition hence why this forum is being invaluable.

I have been trying to work out what I could salvage from it if the movement is shot. I think on a good day there is possibly £4000 worth of parts (please all correct me if I’m wrong). So the question is am I willing to gamble the difference.

I know Chrono24 offer an escrow service but it seems as if that doesn’t offer a tremendous amount of protection when dealing with a private seller. Has anyone recently dealt with the misfortune of having to return something via them.
Not the typical reference for a first pre moon Speedmaster

How about a 145.012? 😀
I must admit I haven’t looked at the 145 that much. If I go no further with this one I will certainly look in to them in more depth.
 
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Spacefruit summed up everything that I was going to state. The case looks relatively unpolished, the facets are sharp and the original finish still seems to be intact. The insert looks great too. The only concern is the dial and potential moisture damage. If watch runs when wound, it can be serviced. Unless, you are against reluming of the dial and the hands, I agree with Spacefruit... definitely worth it.
Using Spacefruit's price chart converting to pounds from dollars

Bracelet .... 1,500 pounds ( if it is as good as it looks)

Case Good ( maybe good +) 10,000 pounds
Bezel Very Good 12,500 pounds
Dial Poor 3,000 pounds
Being conservative...
7.5 to 8.5K pounds for watch head alone ...add bracelet 9k to 10k pounds ( this is as is )
 
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Thank you very much to everyone who helped but unfortunately someone else has beaten me to it. So the search continues.
 
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H Hwills
Thank you very much to everyone who helped but unfortunately someone else has beaten me to it. So the search continues.


Funny that.

(Not me!😀)
 
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I would imagine as soon as @Spacefruit said it was a watch he’d take a chance on there was a scramble of people trying to log onto Chrono24 first.
 
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(Not me!😀)

Not me either 😀

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