Conversation with my Rolex AD

JwRosenthal · Sep 9, 2019

Martin_J_N
Yes I did have a good time thank you, my new watch is just awesome.

As for Rolex practices, well I have put my name down for a number of watches that I like, I'm not overly fussed about the practice if I'm honest, I have not parted with any money just expressed an interest in a watch in the same way that many other people have done. When the watch arrives at the dealers I am able to view the watch and I can buy or decline, not a cent has changed hands.

With new watches from any of the major brands costing a lot of money, I am not convinced that I should expect to see all these watches in AD's around the world, I'm not convinced that they should be readily available for us to look at or hold. Do people really expect to just wander in off the street and buy a watch costing in excess of £5k, and have a choice of bracelet type, dial colour and whether the watch is SS or PM?

I get that people don't think that Rolex are in the same league as PP, AP, VC or JLC and a few others but they are very much towards the top of the tree and an incredibly popular brand. I have Omega watches, I have Longines watches and now my first Rolex, I was surprised how quickly I received the call considering the comments that abound about getting Rolex watches in SS plus finding out that the DJ41 was being added to that list, if I am honest I expected the end of this year or early next year before I got the call..

I fully appreciate that I am a newbie in getting in to this horology hobby and compared to others I know basically 'sod all', but I have spent time reading the forums and I am walking around with my eyes open, so getting told about waiting lists is nothing new or unexpected.

Will I buy another Rolex, maybe, will I get another brand, maybe. I've only just received the DJ and loving it, so for now the waiting list can work away in the background and if my name comes up, I'll look at whatever whenever and make a decision. For now life is too short to worry or stress about whether a watch comes in or not, if it does great, if it doesn't, well there are thousands of other watches out there, I must like something.

Now where is my precious....... 😀

I appreciate your easy-breezy attitude about it and good on you for getting the one you wanted. I disagree on one major point- particularly at the price point, you should have the ability to see the different options, try them on and few in your hands what works for you. If we are talking about vintage pieces- sure, you get what you get- but new product at this level- you should be able to get exactly what you want.

Eve · Sep 9, 2019

The more stories like this i read, the less appealing becomes the brand.. I wonder if it was not for the resale value, if the brand was just as desired right now.

S.H. · Sep 9, 2019

JwRosenthal
I appreciate your easy-breezy attitude about it and good on you for getting the one you wanted. I disagree on one major point- particularly at the price point, you should have the ability to see the different options, try them on and few in your hands what works for you. If we are talking about vintage pieces- sure, you get what you get- but new product at this level- you should be able to get exactly what you want.

Indeed. Last year I browsed the OP34 (nice little thing, but I don't like the round bezel - and the price) at the nearest AD. I asked if it could be possible to buy a Rolex branded tang buckle, to enjoy it on leather. Short answer : no. Long answer : We can't sell you a buckle for a watch that has a bracelet on the catalog, meaning you can have a buckle on your Cellini, not on an OP34 for example. But we can do a dial swap along the line if you don't like the color (300eur).

We are talking about a 4.6keur retail thingy. And a buckle worth pocket change.

😒 🤨

Lenny Pepperidge · Sep 9, 2019

I have no problem with taking care of good customers for something that is in short supply, whether it's a (truly) rare watch, a seat in a full restaurant or an airline upgrade to 1st. I, however, see a fundamental difference in someone who's spent tens of thousands at an AD going to the top of the waiting list and an AD demanding that a customer (old or new) buy something they don't want in order be put on the waiting list. Throw in the feel that this shortage is being manipulated by Rolex (maybe no fire but a lot of smoke billowing around) as part of a long term branding strategy, and I can see how people are really souring on the brand.

Fatcat · Sep 9, 2019

For a Sub date took me 10 weeks to get it, the GMT also around 10 Weeks , long wait list in your AD

Martin_J_N · Sep 9, 2019

JwRosenthal
I appreciate your easy-breezy attitude about it and good on you for getting the one you wanted. I disagree on one major point- particularly at the price point, you should have the ability to see the different options, try them on and few in your hands what works for you. If we are talking about vintage pieces- sure, you get what you get- but new product at this level- you should be able to get exactly what you want.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you, you are expecting an AD to have in stock numerous variations of a £5.5k watch?

Let's explore this further, there are 8 variations of the SS DJ41 on a Jubilee and 8 variations of the SS DJ on an Oyster, making 16 watches the AD has to stock. If you add the white gold bezel then you have a further 4 variations for each bracelet making 12 variations for each bracelet, putting a further 24 watches in stock, making a total of 40 SS DJ41 watches that an AD would have to hold to allow you to put each one on your wrist to see if it suits you.

The value of these watches comes to around £90,000 for the plain SS and £180,000 for the SS/WG combination, a total of over £270,000 just to allow you to wander in off the street and look at a DJ41, now replicate this for all the other watches made by Rolex and this total is going to be well over £1,000,000 just for one store.

Now we have established that display stock is going to be in excess of £1,000,000, now what about actual sales stock, how many watches should the AD hold to actually sell? You can't sell the display stock otherwise the next customer to wander in and look at the DJ41 range won't have a full set of watches to view, so display and sales stock has to be separate.

If this is carried out across the country, across Europe, Asia, America, Canada and everywhere in-between, there are going to be thousands and thousands of watches having to be made, and who is going to splash out the money for all these watches, the AD's? I very much doubt that they could afford the upfront costs. Rolex certainly aren't going to pay and I doubt if they have any inclination to ramp up production to cater for this pointless exercise.

Let's face some facts, the system is what the system is, it isn't going to change. No one forces anyone to go out and buy a watch, it is a choice, something that we choose to do. If we want to buy a Rolex we go and talk to our preferred AD, probably our local one if the truth be known, they explain the situation and we decide whether it is a route we want to go down.

In my case I tried a TT DJ41 on an Oyster with a smooth bezel and a TT DJ41 on a Jubilee with a fluted bezel, so I knew how each watch looked like on my wrist, I preferred the look of the Oyster with a smooth bezel so asked the AD for that combination but in SS.

Did I expect to see a lot of SS DJ41's in the store - no, has it upset me - no, has it impacted on my ability to buy a watch I wanted - no, would I buy another Rolex - yes, am I prepared to wait - yes.

When I ordered my new Audi I went into the dealers, they had cars in stock, they wanted to sell me a car they had in stock, the cars were either over my budget or did not come in the configuration I wanted so I had to order my car and then wait. Sound familiar?

My watch buying experience was great (other than the flat champers!!), I don't have an issue with Rolex or the way that the AD works, if I want to try a Pepsi or Hulk or Batman or other hard to come by Rolex watch I can go to my local Watchfinder store and try the watch on, then go to the AD and order what I have tried and like, and I'll pay the right price not an inflated grey market price when it arrives at the AD.

If people don't like the way that Rolex operate go and buy a watch from another top brand, Omega make awesome watches, I have two so speak from experience, AP, PP and all the other top brands can sell you a watch that will be no worse than a Rolex and in many cases better, so as we all have the freedom to choose where we spend our hard earned cash, we spend it where we will and enjoy whatever we decide to buy.

To anyone reading this rather lengthy missive, by all means pick holes in my thoughts I don't have a problem with that but please can the constant whining about no SS Rolex watches in stores stop, it isn't going to change, as long as Rolex remains one of the most popular Swiss watch brands on the planet the situation will remain as it is.

In all probability the bubble will burst at some point in the future and my lovely watch will have to be given away as a prize in a raffle as no-one will buy it as Rolex watches will be worthless.

Apologies for the length of my reply, its not aimed at anyone in particular, just me getting some frustrations off my chest.

Martin_J_N · Sep 9, 2019

Fatcat
For a Sub date took me 10 weeks to get it, the GMT also around 10 Weeks , long wait list in your AD

I think that this is probably a reasonable reflection on what can be achieved, it may not work every time but there are watches out there, sometimes it requires a bit of luck, I certainly had some arriving at the AD where new stock had been received overnight and only put out that morning, the AD stated that they would clear all the SS stock received with 24-48 hours.

I also wonder if the Submariner I held was actually for a customer or whether they were starting on a set of phone calls to see who wanted it. If I had the cash in my bank I might have pushed bait harder but with the piggy bank empty there wasn't much point.

Stufflers Mom · Sep 9, 2019

It's this kind of crap that turns people way from the brand and the knock on effect is that some people might turn to fakes to have their Rolex fix.

Martin_J_N · Sep 9, 2019

Stufflers Mom
It's this kind of crap that turns people way from the brand and the knock on effect is that some people might turn to fakes to have their Rolex fix.

I think that many will do just that for their Rolex fix, but only those that are too impatient to wait for the real deal, me I'm happy to wait, not an issue.

Stufflers Mom · Sep 9, 2019

Martin_J_N
I think that many will do just that for their Rolex fix, but only those that are too impatient to wait for the real deal, me I'm happy to wait, not an issue.

I'm not patient\tolerant enough to wait for "the call" so I vote with my feet and walk in shops where product is available to buy today.

Martin_J_N · Sep 9, 2019

Stufflers Mom
I'm not patient\tolerant enough to wait for "the call" so I vote with my feet and walk in shops where product is available to buy today.

Well done, if this is how you want to spend your hard earned dosh then go and do as you please, no arguments from me, totally support your freedom of choice in how you spend your money

Stufflers Mom · Sep 9, 2019

Martin_J_N
Well done, if this is how you want to spend your hard earned dosh then go and do as you please, no arguments from me, totally support your freedom of choice in how you spend your money

Freedom is what it's all about, I bought something today that was a little different\first for me, which was a TT steel\rose gold Aqua Terra Annual calendar. It needs an additional link and the shop has sent it to STS who will fit the link and refurb the bracelet if required, but it looked pretty good to me. Pics to follow when I get it back from STS.

jrhave2 · Sep 9, 2019

Stufflers Mom
It's this kind of crap that turns people way from the brand and the knock on effect is that some people might turn to fakes to have their Rolex fix.

This is legit. I'm not a huge Rolex fan, but the other day I followed a few websites down a rabbit-hole and ended up on a site that reviewed (in excruciating detail) every fake sub that was available on the market. I was blown away by the quality of these watches, which has apparently increased exponentially in recent years as demand has skyrocketed due to the supply issues discussed here. I would never spend $2K on a fake watch (where is the satisfaction in that?), but I was amazed. Some of the new counterfeit stock coming out of China would fool anyone without a loop and a deep knowledge of the original reference.

Martin_J_N · Sep 9, 2019

jrhave2
This is legit. I'm not a huge Rolex fan, but the other day I followed a few websites down a rabbit-hole and ended up on a site that reviewed (in excruciating detail) every fake sub that was available on the market. I was blown away by the quality of these watches, which has apparently increased exponentially in recent years as demand has skyrocketed due to the supply issues discussed here. I would never spend $2K on a fake watch (where is the satisfaction in that?), but I was amazed. Some of the new counterfeit stock coming out of China would fool anyone without a loop and a deep knowledge of the original reference.

Yep, seen a few videos where they compare fake against real, and unless you have the real one in your hand you would have very little chance of identifying a top quality fake, in fact I think for many of us we still wouldn't pick the fake if we had both watches in our hands. I will stick to buying from my AD, at least I know my money has bought the real deal.

jrhave2 · Sep 9, 2019

Martin_J_N
Yep, seen a few videos where they compare fake against real, and unless you have the real one in your hand you would have very little chance of identifying a top quality fake, in fact I think for many of us we still wouldn't pick the fake if we had both watches in our hands. I will stick to buying from my AD, at least I know my money has bought the real deal.

This review went all the way into the angle of the notches in the bezel, and even then some of the fakes were within one or two degrees of correct. No way you can see that without the authentic right next to it (and knowing which was real/fake).

Evitzee · Sep 9, 2019

A few years ago fake AP Royal Oaks appeared and AP itself was floored at the quality, most people couldn't pick out the fake vs the real article. With sophisticated software and automated machines very convincing fakes can be churned out, especially if the standard models don't have sapphire backs, like Rolex. Throw a cheap Chinese movement in it and the profit is 'off the hook'. This is becoming a real headache for the industry.

JwRosenthal · Sep 9, 2019

Evitzee
A few years ago fake AP Royal Oaks appeared and AP itself was floored at the quality, most people couldn't pick out the fake vs the real article. With sophisticated software and automated machines very convincing fakes can be churned out, especially if the standard models don't have sapphire backs, like Rolex. Throw a cheap Chinese movement in it and the profit is 'off the hook'. This is becoming a real headache for the industry.

It goes beyond that- even if you pull the back they have gotten good at faking the movement as well! Only if you really know what a Rolex movement looks like could you discern the difference.

journeyforce · Sep 9, 2019

I am glad Omega is not like that on most watches. You don't have to kiss a crown to get a Omega. As long as you have the purchase price, you can walk out with a nice Omega.

I wonder if Hans Wilsdorf (the founder of Rolex) is spinning around in his grave? His motto was that if you had a good job and could set aside some money from each payday then there was a Rolex waiting for you.

When I got my sub back in the 1990's, I would have been able to go in and have my pick of Rolex watches, the only thing holding me back would have been cost (and not availability). In the end it was cost that held me back, I got a plain stainless steel Sub that I put down a large down payment(from high school graduation money) and made payments for about a year or so on it using store credit. I still have that watch and it still gets serviced regularly.

I want another Rolex (Datejust or Explorer) but I will probably get one from my Omega AD. He has a counter with nice condition preowned watches(including a 1 year old DJ that looks new)

Evitzee · Sep 9, 2019

J journeyforce
I am glad Omega is not like that on most watches. You don't have to kiss a crown to get a Omega. As long as you have the purchase price, you can walk out with a nice Omega.

We'll see how that works if, and when, Omega releases a stainless steel Cal 321 Speedmaster.

JwRosenthal · Sep 9, 2019

J journeyforce
I am glad Omega is not like that on most watches. You don't have to kiss a crown to get a Omega. As long as you have the purchase price, you can walk out with a nice Omega.

I wonder if Hans Wilsdorf (the founder of Rolex) is spinning around in his grave? His motto was that if you had a good job and could set aside some money from each payday then there was a Rolex waiting for you.

When I got my sub back in the 1990's, I would have been able to go in and have my pick of Rolex watches, the only thing holding me back would have been cost (and not availability). In the end it was cost that held me back, I got a plain stainless steel Sub that I put down a large down payment(from high school graduation money) and made payments for about a year or so on it using store credit. I still have that watch and it still gets serviced regularly.

I want another Rolex (Datejust or Explorer) but I will probably get one from my Omega AD. He has a counter with nice condition preowned watches(including a 1 year old DJ that looks new)

Exactly!! Maybe I’m just stuck in the past but it wasn’t that long ago I could walk into a Rolex AD and there were dozens of watches- every variation- they were basically throwing them at me ! It was dazzling and it made me want to spend money. The “unattainable” has never held any allure for me, I prefer antique stores and art galleries to museums- I can buy it there if I really love it.
The used market is plentiful- unless you are in love with a current model (like the OP’s DJ which is nothing like the old DJ’s), there is no reason to buy new IMO. There is always a great selection of Subs, GMT, and DJ’s on this forum’s classified’s.

Conversation with my Rolex AD

JwRosenthal

Eve

S.H.

Lenny Pepperidge

Fatcat

Martin_J_N

Martin_J_N

Stufflers Mom

Martin_J_N

Stufflers Mom

Martin_J_N

Stufflers Mom

jrhave2

Martin_J_N

jrhave2

Evitzee

JwRosenthal

journeyforce

Evitzee

JwRosenthal

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