Constellation Identification - gift

rains in pdx · Jan 2, 2020

Happy New Year

I was fortunate to be on the receiving end of a classic Constellation but for the life of me I can't find a good picture to help identify it's vintage.

This watch has come to me with zero provenance other than it was stuck in a desk drawer of a friend of mine and he happened to give it to me in passing as he was headed to the thrift shop to donate it and some other items.

I held it in my hand and within a few seconds the movement started up. It came with an awful twist-o-flex band and was pretty dirty. A bit of a clean and polish of the crystal and a fresh leather band we are looking pretty good.

The watch is gold on stainless and the dial markers are points (not numbers) and have luminescent dots on them. Surprisingly the luminescent markers still work after being exposed to a desk lamp but under a close look are showing their age.

On the dial the word "Automatic" is in a cursive font and "Constellation and Waterproof" on the back. I have been unable to find a picture of a similar one yet on line and I thought I would ask for some help in solving the mystery.

Given the watch is keeping very good time losing only 2 min or so in the last three days I am reticent to open the watch up until I find a good watchmaker here in Portland, OR.

I am super curious about what I have, but I will likely just enjoy it for the time being following the "ain't broke, don't fix it" mantra.

thanks in advance for any help you can give!

Vanallard · Jan 2, 2020

Welcome to the forum. The dial has been refinished, which is unfortunate as waffle dial constellations are uncommon and quite sought after. The hands and crown have also been replaced at some point.

You should have a watchmaker remove them case back so that you can take photos of the movement and inside of the case back - this is where you’ll find most of the info on the model and be able to assess whether other parts have been replaced.

italy1861 · Jan 2, 2020

Not sure if it's help but:
1. bad redial
2. the crown and hands have been replaced
3. relume
I'm sure other opinions will follow

Shabbaz · Jan 2, 2020

It's a repainted and relumed guilloche dial. Modelnumber is on the inside.

rains in pdx · Jan 2, 2020

italy1861
Not sure if it's help but:
1. bad redial
2. the crown and hands have been replaced
3. relume
I'm sure other opinions will follow

** I will get the back opened and we can sort out the numbers but you are thinking the dial might have been replace or just "relumed" ?

Are original crowns and hands still available? would it be best to remove the lume completely? sorry for the newb questions.

rains in pdx · Jan 2, 2020

Vanallard
Welcome to the forum. The dial has been refinished, which is unfortunate as waffle dial constellations are uncommon and quite sought after. The hands and crown have also been replaced at some point.

You should have a watchmaker remove them case back so that you can take photos of the movement and inside of the case back - this is where you’ll find most of the info on the model and be able to assess whether other parts have been replaced.

** thanks for the quick reply. I would assume crowns and hands might be able to be replaced and the lume material removed I would expect. I am not sure a total restoration on this watch is worth it but given the initial cost (free) and I have no specific sentimental feelings on this it could be in the cards. Thoughts?

timecube · Jan 2, 2020

rains in pdx
** thanks for the quick reply. I would assume crowns and hands might be able to be replaced and the lume material removed I would expect. I am not sure a total restoration on this watch is worth it but given the initial cost (free) and I have no specific sentimental feelings on this it could be in the cards. Thoughts?

What they mean is:
"the dial has been refurbished" - it's not original. Which reduces the value somewhat.
"the crown and hands have been replaced" - again, not original, reducing the value and collectibleness somewhat.
"the glow-in-the-dark paint has been stripped and replaced" - ditto.

None of these require ANY work on your part to correct, and at this point they are pretty much uncorrectable anyway.
Unless you're trying to sell it, no big deal. Your watch is perfectly functional as-is, and it would still command a reasonable fraction of its "untouched" cost were you to sell it.

To find out more details - (the date of manufacture, and etc.) you'll need to remove the case back, which is probably best left to a watch-maker. Three relevant bits:

Serial number: an 8-digit number etched somewhere on the movement. Pretty small, you may need a loupe.
Case number: on the case back. tells what case model you have, generally speaking.
Calibration number: 3 or 4 digits on the movement. Tells what kind of mechanism you've got.

The biggest reason you might want a *GOOD* watch-maker, and not some random guy from the mall is for a general servicing, which cleans up the mechanism and tests the seals and should ensure that it continues to work for years to come. Without servicing an old watch may be prey to rust and decay and things silently breaking. Servicing may run you a few hundred dollars- whether it makes sense is up to you.

Lotus_Eater8815 · Jan 2, 2020

rains in pdx
Given the watch is keeping very good time losing only 2 min or so in the last three days I am reticent to open the watch up until I find a good watchmaker here in Portland, OR.

Losing about a minute a day is pretty bad, especially by Omega’s standards. I wouldn’t use the watch until it gets a proper service; you risk wearing down parts that may be difficult to replace.

Given the myriad issues pointed out by other members, the value of this watch is in its sentiment, not collectibility.

Dan S · Jan 2, 2020

rains in pdx
... are thinking the dial might have been replace or just "relumed" ?

Completely re-painted, and also re-lumed.

rains in pdx · Jan 2, 2020

Dan S
Completely re-painted, and also re-lumed.

Interesting- I would have thought it would have been cost prohibitive to repaint a dial on something like this?! Why not just get a "new" dial at that point. Without any history I guess I will never know the reason.

timecube
What they mean is:
"the dial has been refurbished" - it's not original. Which reduces the value somewhat.
"the crown and hands have been replaced" - again, not original, reducing the value and collectibleness somewhat.
"the glow-in-the-dark paint has been stripped and replaced" - ditto.

None of these require ANY work on your part to correct, and at this point they are pretty much uncorrectable anyway.
Unless you're trying to sell it, no big deal. Your watch is perfectly functional as-is, and it would still command a reasonable fraction of its "untouched" cost were you to sell it.

To find out more details - (the date of manufacture, and etc.) you'll need to remove the case back, which is probably best left to a watch-maker. Three relevant bits:

Serial number: an 8-digit number etched somewhere on the movement. Pretty small, you may need a loupe.
Case number: on the case back. tells what case model you have, generally speaking.
Calibration number: 3 or 4 digits on the movement. Tells what kind of mechanism you've got.

The biggest reason you might want a *GOOD* watch-maker, and not some random guy from the mall is for a general servicing, which cleans up the mechanism and tests the seals and should ensure that it continues to work for years to come. Without servicing an old watch may be prey to rust and decay and things silently breaking. Servicing may run you a few hundred dollars- whether it makes sense is up to you.

** thanks for the advice and the clarification.

I don't plan on reselling the watch - its a fun story to tell how I got it. I found a local guy in PDX that has a good reputation and I reached out to look at a cleaning / service and I will likely get some correct hands and a new crown as the whole thing will apart at that point anyway.

Its a perfect size and only you folks here will be likely to spot it is a repaint as the face looks perfectly serviceable to me.

Was there a time where faces were repainted instead of just replaced? I can't imagine it be economically feasible but perhaps it was a much different time?? (the details and lettering are so very small I can't fathom how one would do this)

Thank you again for all you hard earned knowledge..

Dan S · Jan 2, 2020

rains in pdx
Interesting- I would have thought it would have been cost prohibitive to repaint a dial on something like this?! Why not just get a "new" dial at that point. Without any history I guess I will never know the reason.

It's EXTREMELY common, and used to be done routinely.

VetPsychWars · Jan 2, 2020

Not too long ago a dial refinish would be $15. Now it's more for collector-quality refinish. But it used to be cheaper than dirt and a lot less expensive and easier to get than a replacement.

You know, since you got this free and it's a mess anyways. you could send it to Omega, who will service the movement, refinish the dial, refinish the case, and make it look quite presentable. The collectors won't cringe too much because there's not much collectable with this watch anyways.

Tom

rains in pdx · Jan 9, 2020

Here is the update after finding a watchmaker who could handle a proper service

Cal - 501
Case 2852 -4 SC
Serial number 146 51 654

Digging now to understand what this means so I can get an idea of what a proper dial should have looked like given this info.

Stay tuned

cristos71 · Jan 9, 2020

VetPsychWars
Not too long ago a dial refinish would be $15. Now it's more for collector-quality refinish. But it used to be cheaper than dirt and a lot less expensive and easier to get than a replacement.

You know, since you got this free and it's a mess anyways. you could send it to Omega, who will service the movement, refinish the dial, refinish the case, and make it look quite presentable. The collectors won't cringe too much because there's not much collectable with this watch anyways.

Tom

I think the problem with this advice is that the OP would then probably end up spending $1000 to end up with something worth $600-$700.

It would of course look better than it does now, but for the kind of money an Omega service and dial would cost I think the money would be better spent finding a 2852 in good original condition

cristos71 · Jan 9, 2020

rains in pdx
Here is the update after finding a watchmaker who could handle a proper service

Cal - 501
Case 2852 -4 SC
Serial number 146 51 654

Digging now to understand what this means so I can get an idea of what a proper dial should have looked like given this info.

Stay tuned

The model is an Omega Constellation with the model reference 2852

The movement calibre is a 501

The movement serial number is 14651654. You can find the production year with one of the many charts out there ( mid 50's )

If you Google "Omega Constellation 2852" you will find many dial variants

VetPsychWars · Jan 9, 2020

cristos71
I think the problem with this advice is that the OP would then probably end up spending $1000 to end up with something worth $600-$700.

Depends on whether he's sentimental enough because it came from his friend and whether he's going to keep it forever.

Like all the rest of the advice on here, it's worth what he paid for it and he's free to do whatever he wants. It was just another possibility out of many.

Tom

Shabbaz · Jan 9, 2020

https://omegaforums.net/threads/show-me-your-2852-connie.94709/

rains in pdx · Jan 9, 2020

Unless we are way out there with some super worn parts I am guessing I will be into the watch around $600 - $650 which is within the budget.

Once they open it up and check the status of things we will have a better idea anyway. It obviously "has" been serviced at some points in the past so luck may be with me here.

It is a project for sure so I will keep folk updated.

Edward53 · Jan 10, 2020

Why not just get it serviced, leave it as is and wear it? Collectors are picky about alterations but to most people it's a nice-enough looking watch. Nothing wrong with "Just enjoy it" as per your original post!

krogerfoot · Jan 10, 2020

Edward53
Why not just get it serviced, leave it as is and wear it? Collectors are picky about alterations but to most people it's a nice-enough looking watch. Nothing wrong with "Just enjoy it" as per your original post!

I second that emotion. If you're not a collector/watch nerd, just get it serviced and put it on. It's perfectly nice just the way it is—in fact, the painted-on script "Automatic" is kind of charming.

Constellation Identification - gift

rains in pdx

Vanallard

italy1861

Shabbaz

rains in pdx

rains in pdx

timecube

Lotus_Eater8815

Dan S

rains in pdx

Dan S

VetPsychWars

rains in pdx

cristos71

cristos71

VetPsychWars

Shabbaz

rains in pdx

Edward53

krogerfoot

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