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Confessions of a former watch flipper by GQ.

  1. Uniqez Nov 25, 2019

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    wristpirate and kip595 like this.
  2. Dan S Nov 25, 2019

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    "I have my eye on a vintage Rolex Datejust that is stunning – it will be a nightmare to sell again, I will never make a profit on it ..." :rolleyes:
     
  3. kip595 Nov 25, 2019

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    I agree, but can see both sides of it. If, for example, one 'inadvertently' flips a watch and receives a punitive action because of it, it becomes a very muddy subject. Suppose, for a hypothetical example, I have a long running association with my local Rolex dealer, not because I've bought many Rolexes but because I've bought ten Tag-HEUERs, which they also deal in, in two years. On a whim I ask them for a SS GMT, the dealer says, hey, he's a more regular purchaser than any of our Rolex people, he can have the next one in (which would be morally awkward to start with, IMHO, for the dealer to do), and then sells me the watch. I take it home it, decide it's not for me, and sell it with no ill intent at current market value, but then get listed as a flipper.

    That situation could end badly for everyone: dealer loses a loyal customer to retain good standing with the parent company, buyer loses credibility as a genuine aficionado, the final buyer pays too much due to grey market inflation.

    On the whole though, it is (again in my opinion) 100% correct to say that anyone flipping intentionally for profit is at best showing poor decorum to genuine watch lovers and at worst destroying the principles of what we all enjoy in these little pieces of art.
     
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  4. BradleyJ. Nov 25, 2019

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    I had a similar response but deleted it to avoid an argument Haha. Lots of scenarios could result in becoming "blacklisted" such as buying a hard to get watch and just plain deciding it isn't for you. At that point is it wrong to ask top dollar like anyone else would do? And let's be real, if you got your hands on a watch that probably took time waiting on a list to get, does that wait not carry a price tag? And like stated, people just flat out buy stuff to flip (not just watches) and that's not right but is it technically wrong? They take the gamble and do the leg work.
     
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  5. kingsrider Thank you Sir! May I have another? Nov 25, 2019

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    At what point does a watch cease to be a flip?. Is there a do not sell before date to avoid this epithet. I just sold a watch for three times what I paid for it. I got the watch very cheap, due to a really bad listing and even worse pictures. I took a risk. I had the watch for three plus years and only wore a handful of times because it was smaller than I thought it would be.
    I think it qualifies for a FLIP, but did I show poor decorum in profiting? I don't think so. I priced it according to what my research told me it was worth on the open market.
     
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  6. BradleyJ. Nov 25, 2019

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    I think that's the only logical argument for antiflipping. People claim that flippers are driving up the prices. Remember the old term called "supply and demand" lol. I guess I'm not for or against flipping. Maybe a little jealous at times though since I'm not getting the watch or the profits Haha.
     
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  7. sjg22 Nov 25, 2019

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    Unpopular opinion but I don’t blame the anonymous individual In this article.

    The law of supply and demand is being contravened - certain watches are being sold for significantly less than they are worth. Either the price should be increased to what people are willing to pay, or the supply should be increased. Or nothing should be done, and we should all (including the brand) be ok with “flipping”. But they’re not doing anyone those things, and aren’t ok with flipping, so we have a market failure. Through that market failure, we have an arbitrage situation.

    Anytime a market failure creates an arbitrage, there will be people that take advantage. We may wish that not to be true, but If there’s enough money to be made, there will be people who look to profit.

    Brands are creating this environment. The “true” prices are the grey market prices at this level of supply. Increase supply and the price will go down. Do nothing and the current situation will inevitably result.
     
    Edited Nov 25, 2019
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  8. Dan S Nov 25, 2019

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    This is not the type of flipping being discussed in the article. It is describing flipping new and unworn watches purchased from an AD for a profit.
     
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  9. BradleyJ. Nov 25, 2019

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    The ST2 was sold out almost a year an a half ago but you can still find brand new box sets for sale as well as next to mint condition full sets that maybe were worn a handful of times. The new sets sell for.... big money (honestly I dont keep up with it) the basically new sets sell for almost the same price but a hair cheaper. So is the sellers of the new ones flippers and the sellers of the worn 3 times sets not? Both are making a crazy profit. And as @kingsrider mentioned, what's the cut off date? How long does one need to hold onto a watch or better yet, how many times does one need to wear a watch before it's not flipping?
     
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  10. kingsrider Thank you Sir! May I have another? Nov 25, 2019

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    Yah, I get that. But this flipping issue comes up from time to time and sometimes the discussion is about high end vintage as well.
     
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  11. Braindrain Nov 25, 2019

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    This discussion/argument was hashed to death a decade ago with PAM. Remember those? Yeah, watches that no flipper wants now?
     
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  12. Dan S Nov 25, 2019

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    I don't think that what you did qualifies as flipping at all. You took a risk on an unknown piece based on poor photos. And while you were lucky, and you got it for a good price, it didn't meet your expectations. For me, those factors are more relevant than the timeline. Very different than buying a NIB piece that you never intended to keep.
     
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  13. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Nov 25, 2019

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    Flipping is a tiresome subject, overwrought, and discussed ad nauseam here and every other watch forum of note.

    Plenty of other windmills to tilt at. :coffee:
     
  14. jsducote Nov 25, 2019

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    I'm not sure I totally accept the supply & demand argument. For whom is the demand SO great that they HAVE TO pay flipper prices? It's not like food or shelter where you HAVE to have it. I may not have gotten the top marks in Psych 101, but I don't remember seeing the Aquanaut in Maslow's hierachy. Lots of people want a SS Rolex, myself included, but Rolex has decided not to make enough of them so I guess I won't get one. It's easy for me to take it off my "want" list and shut down my own desire for it.
     
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  15. Kjian414 Nov 25, 2019

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    Hmm.. interesting read. I do have to say that some reseller/flippers help out the ADs by moving hard to move pieces and in turn get rewarded a in demand watch every now and then. But this is definitely a more rare situation.
     
  16. tritto Nov 25, 2019

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    Personally, I don't mind someone selling a watch they've bought and not loved for a profit. What I object to is people who habitually buy new watches that are in short supply with the intention to profit. There are people on several of the Facebook fora I'm on that seem to be constantly selling new-with-stickers desirable watches at a mark up to RRP. The whole 'gotta raise funds for an incoming' doesn't ring true when they seem to have a regular supply of new watches to sell at a mark up.
     
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  17. larryganz The cable guy Nov 25, 2019

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    No, not a flip.
     
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  18. larryganz The cable guy Nov 25, 2019

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    Says the flipper to the wind. (j/k)
     
  19. Uniqez Nov 25, 2019

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    I think there are people who bought the watch with intend to wear they could not be called flippers....but people who are buying short supplied watches with intention to sell it right away, for profit are contributing to supply shortages! It just ironically when you scrolling through IG and lots and lots of profiles with 10 GMTs, 5 SS daytonas etc. available at double prices ...
    And here is me walking to AD and asking for sports models....people are simply smiling at you. I've been traveling some for work and vacation last few years...Every single country I've been to, I would visit AD. They had nothing, but bunch of DJs.
    I had a long conversation with my wife the other day, and she couldn't believe what I was saying....She goes:Why don't you buy a new SUB or GMT, why are you always on the hunt for used....I told her that I can't, I just need one watch, I don't need any DJs and DDs - so AD would not even consider myself as a potential customer.
    I was fortunate to get Explorer 2 and modern Explorer MK1 and I understand that I came too late to this game...I'm not going to be able to pay double of MSRP, period. So this is what grey market have done here: watch enthusiasts ( I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this boat) are not able to get what they want, paying MSRP.
    Of course it's not just flippers, but they are contributing a lot to this issue .
     
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  20. larryganz The cable guy Nov 25, 2019

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    And my wife is like, "you need another watch like you need a hole in the head, why do you need a new one when you have the old ones?"
     
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