Background information: I am a modern watch collector and have always wanted to add a vintage SM300 to my collection. In doing my research, I located this piece and decided to follow through with the purchase. Upon receiving it, I had skepticism but was happy with the overall look, really not knowing what I had. I decided that vintage wasn't for me and offered to sell the watch back to the seller not knowing that this watch had non-original parts. Upon listing the watch on ebay I got many emails specifically stating that the watch had non-original replacement watchco parts on this piece. I sent the watch to a well known collector and he, along with many others have stated that the hands are replacement, along with the bezel.

One well known collector specifically stated and I quote, "I suspected that the bezel may be a replacement based of its like new condition for a 46 year old watch.Once I saw the watch in person I could tell the sheen on the hands looked odd compared to the look of natural decaying tritium that it is supposed to be on them and is present on the dial markers. The proof that the watch is not completely original and has replacement parts comes from this photo-
After shining light on the watch to make the luminous portions glow it is completely obvious that the dial is not the same as the hands, chrono secondhand or bezel. These parts all seem to be replacement, non- original parts."


The fact that this watch was sold as "all original" is completely misleading and false in my opinion.

I have submitted all original listing photos and a lume shot that is a tell tell sign that the watch does in fact have replacement parts. I need everyone's advice on this as I am trying to get the seller to refund my money.



Please read below original eBay listing:
Very nice example of 1970's Omega Seamaster 300 166.024 with calibre 565 with 31.180.008 serial number.

Delivered to Singapore 17.12.1971

This is all original and not a watchco parts watch! Just very good condition and later example.

Exceptional bezel and dial condition.

Also, I believe the three references inside the caseback may have been done for military pieces.

This one is not issued, as has no number but speaking with other collectors and the museum in Switzerland it is quite rare to have this. The black date window makes sense, in this case.

The watch has strong amplitude, but hasn't been serviced recently.

Original 1171/633 bracelet included, pics updated soon...

Any questions please ask.

Happy eBaying!

 

The point in all of this is I paid a premium for an all original, non replacement part watch and that is not what was delivered to me.

If a car is listed as all original, I would expect it to be that, not have replacement parts on it that other knowledgeable and well known collectors can physically see. Lume pictures can justify that.

 

Cool lume shot though....

 

No way that it is all original. Anytime that there are obvious disparities in the aging of various parts of the watch, it is a huge red flag. The lume is also a certain indicator that it is a put-together piece.

The watch was clearly misrepresented, and I would attempt to return it for a refund.

 

Just file a not as described complaint with eBay.

Its clearly not all original.

Hopefully you paid with PayPal using a credit card as back up.

 

The movement obviously has decades of wear on it! Rather sad looking, to my eye. Watches generally wear from the outside, inward. This one has reversed that trend. Wearing from the inside, outward! How is that possible? It's NOT! New dial, new hands, new case. Hardly original! Misrepresented in the most flagrant manner! Watchco all the way!

 

I'm not a 100%, but it Looks like it may have been assembled with original Omega NOS replacement parts? And no way should it still glow in the dark after 50 years. . .

 

I paid via paypal using an American Express.

 

then you're doubly covered - if not by PP, than by AMEX.

 

Assuming the sale was completed through eBay, then actually triple covered, eBay, PayPal and Amex.

State in your complaint with eBay that the watch was described as all original, however after having it examined by several knowledgeable people it contains replacement parts. Don't go into a long drawn out diatribe, just the most basic of facts at first.

 

Is this the listing?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-197...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

Since it's not listed as "SOLD" did you complete the sale outside of Ebay?

Problem here is that the condition is stated as "PRE OWNED" the problem with filing a SNAD claim is that this is the ONLY thing that Ebay agents are allowed to read when deciding whether or not a listing is SNAD. Frankly to non-enthusiasts, a used watch having original Omega replacement parts does not constitute SNAD (though it does to collectors of vintage). If the seller knows what he's doing, there's a good chance you'll lose the claim.

I know this because I've been at the other end of this, when I described a watch item condition as NEAR MINT and then lost a claim when buyer said that he could see scratches when using a 30x loupe. How reasonable is that??? The Ebay agent told me that even though I clearly described signs of wear in the listing description, agents are disallowed from reading the listing description when deciding SNAD - only ITEM CONDITION. From then on, I only used PRE OWNED as the item condition, and have never lost a claim ever since.

You may though, stand a better chance by talking to AMEX, just remember that you waive all Ebay and Paypal seller protections if you file a chargeback with your credit card.

As an aside, I'm a stickler for being able to back up what you say. The only way that I can claim (or believe) that a watch is "all original" is if I am (or the seller is) the only owner, or if I have what amounts to a complete documented service history. If not, I am just not going to claim it (or believe it if someone else tells me)

 

Oops, if you didn't complete the sale through eBay, then as noted above your choices are limited to a PayPal claim or charge back through Amex.

As much a some people like to complain about eBay they do offer a a high level of security for buyers.

 

And if you paid via Paypal outside Ebay, your options are much more limited. Did you get a Paypal invoice (if so, what did it say that you were buying), or did you just send money (tougher to tie that to any agreement to buy an "all original" watch)

I've sold tens of thousands of things over Ebay and Paypal, and yes you can game the system if you know how to use the rules to your advantage. Luckily I'm one of the good guys, but man there are so many ways an unscrupulous seller can take advantage of a buyer who is not paying attention.

 

Thanks for your advice
It's a minefield!
I'm going to be patient and wait for one from the forum

 

How much time has passed between you purchasing the watch and now?

 

wow, pretty sad that you he sold this for $5000. For that kind of money you can buy a really nice vintage piece.
I think the lesson here is do your homework before dropping $5000. It doesn't take much effort to learn about these watches...better yet simple post a link before bidding and we could have warned you.

The second lesson here is don't make a transaction outside of Ebay unless you know what you are doing. Hopefully the seller will do the right thing and refund your money, but be very careful before you just ship it back. File a case with PayPal first and be sure you ship with tracking and signature required. Also get confirmation from the seller that he will take it back.

This is a very expensive lesson that could have been easily avoided by asking first.

But to answer your question, NO this is not all original. Its pieced together and most certainly Watchco parts. To add insult to injury, any implication that this has any military provenance is simply BS.

 

so you didn't buy it on Ebay?

 

The purchase was through paypal, with American Express, but not completed on ebay.

 

This seller knows better...did you contact them for a refund?
I can't imagine they would not allow you to return the watch, they are a dealer.

Regardless, this dealer is known to use very questionable descriptions. But I would start with asking them for a refund.

 

Why did you wait that long?