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Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

TexOmega
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Elgin grade 616 17j circa 1951
5 adjustments( probably only 3 positions plus isochronism and temperature) and Pendant Set, so not RR grade but perfect for bus/trolly/streetcar or a solid pw at a lower price point.

Same family of movements as the 571 BW Raymond RR grade, but at the bottom of the family.

The stylized dp is for their DuroPower mainspring, marketed as unbreakable.

Montgomery single sunk numeric dial.

Elgin’s last USA made 16s pw. The slide starts…..

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Canuck
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My Elgin B W Raymond grade 571, 21-jewels, 8 adjustments. Vitreous enamel dial. These B W Raymonds had a tendency to have the lever set components fail. This happened with mine, soon after I bought it. This was before internet searching for parts was available, and my usual sources were unable to supply parts. The now defunct S LaRose company made available all the parts necessary to convert the watch to stem set by using genuine parts from other Elgin grades. So this one is now a stem set. Come to think of it, I don’t recall ever having worn this watch. At one time, I had a very much nicer grade 571, but foolishly, I sold it! This one is from 1949. Here is the pocketwatchdatabase info on it.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/V532415

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Bernhard J
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Here an American private label watch, signed A.G. Wiseman, St. Louis. Really heavy (about 150g) watch with an 18K savonette case. The movement is Swiss and of the "Jürgensen style". Typical is the huge balance wheel and the very long neck of the (balanced) anchor. One needs to know that Jürgensen did not make the raw movements themselves, but obtained them from Audemars, Aubert, Piguet, and a few others. This one is finished to the highest level. And look at the dial, at the large subseconds and the fine (original) hands, really exactly the opposite to railroad watch hands.

A.G. Wiseman was not only a retailer and jeweler, but also was an inventor and held several US and even German patents in the field of horology.

Thanks to NAWCC members for additional information about A.G. Wiseman.

J Jürgensen.jpg 31.jpg 11.jpg Foto Wiseman.jpg
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TexOmega
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American Watch Co.(eventually Waltham Watch Co.)
Year: 1875
18s Model 1857 grade PS Bartlett Key wind/key set with key
Encased in a early 1st generation GW Ladd 4-hinge case (patent date June 11, 1867)
Lovely moon hands and plenty of blued screws

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noelekal
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Wore a Hamilton 992 watch to church Sunday morning. I suppose it's in the No. 2 style case seen above in TexOmega's illustrated chart?





It further appears to this 992 is in its original case or else if non-original to the watch, by a happy accident, was installed into a numbered case (0262572) which falls within the year the watch was produced.


WADSWORTH-HAMILTON CASE NUMBERS YEAR-BY-YEAR

____________________________________________________


1924 - 6900000


NOTE: The earliest "Crossbar" cases used a Wadsworth numbering system which changed by the following year.


1925 - 0200000

1926 - 0250000


NOTE: The patent registration marking "PAT'S PEND'G" was dropped at this point and "PAT 5-22-26" markings began.


1927 - 0300000

1928 - 0400000

1929 - 0500000


NOTE: Around 0500000 the case number layout had changed from straight line to a curved "v-shaped" formation.


1930 - 0550000

1931 - 0600000

1932 - 0650000

1933 - 0700000

1934 - 0750000

1935 - 0800000


NOTES: During this time, the case numbers were back to being in a straight line again. And they used SIX DIGITS rather than SEVEN on case numbers for a while during 1935 as numbers 087682 and 087881 have been confirmed as correct and that spread of numbers indicates there are likely others out there.


1936 - 0900000

_________________________________________


H-PREFIX BEGAN AT H000001 IN 1937

NOTES: Around this time Wadsworth restarted their numbering system having them preceded by an "H" prefix, beginning with H000001 and continuing forward on both the Model 2 and Model 10 cases. The Wadsworth Case Model 8 was phased-out having been last shown in the 1936 Hamilton Catalog at which time they introduced the Model 10 case which would be kept in the line until it was eventually phased-out during 1947 production.


1937 - H150000

1938 - H200000

1939 - H300000

1940 - H400000

1941 - H500000

1942 - H575000

1943 - H625000

1944 - H650000

1945 - H680000

1946 - H800000


NO PATENT DATES INDICATED AFTER H800000 in 1946

NOTE: We have H799517 with the "PAT 5-22-26" patent date and H814140 which is blank in that area with NO PATENT DATE so it is likely the patent date was eliminated right around the approximately H800000 case number.


1947 - H900000

1948 - H999000


J-PREFIX BEGAN AT ABOUT J080000

NOTES: It is important to recognize that between the end of H-prefixes and beginning of J-prefixes during 1948 there were a series of 00-prefix numbers. Of course this often causes confusion but fortunately they had dropped the patent dates by this time so knowing that we can easily distinguish these cases from previous ones. These 00-prefix numbers run to around 0077500 or so, then it appears the first 0 was replaced with a "J" with J-prefix numbers taking over at around J080000 and continue through the end of Wadsworth production as shown below.

_________________________________________


1949 - J200000

1950 - J275000

1951 - J350000

1952 - J375000

1953 - J400000


WADSWORTH PRODUCTION ENDS
 
Canuck
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My American Waltham model 1857 is more pedestrian, in an open faced coin silver case. Good runner, but certainly not railroad standard accuracy.

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pdxleaf
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This arrived today from ebay. The seller said he has collected pw for about 40 years and this was an early purchase from an older gentleman at a NAWCC mart. Pretty decent condition, aside from needing a service. No brassing that I can see.

I still know little but knew of the Bunn Special reputation so was looking for one. The Gothic font on this captured my attention. The dial is solid.

It joins my 992, which also has a beautiful dial and keeps fantastic time after its service.

Now to find someone to service it.

20240903_163250.jpg 20240903_163600.jpg 20240903_163739.jpg 20240903_163941.jpg 20240903_164032.jpg 20240903_185508.jpg
 
ghce
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
This arrived today from ebay. The seller said he has collected pw for about 40 years and this was an early purchase from an older gentleman at a NAWCC mart. Pretty decent condition, aside from needing a service. No brassing that I can see.

I still know little but knew of the Bunn Special reputation so was looking for one. The Gothic font on this captured my attention. The dial is solid.

It joins my 992, which also has a beautiful dial and keeps fantastic time after its service.

Now to find someone to service it.

20240903_163250.jpg 20240903_163600.jpg 20240903_163739.jpg 20240903_163941.jpg 20240903_164032.jpg 20240903_185508.jpg
If you could only own one Pocket Watch by choice or law, this would be it!
Hopefully you still have all your Kidneys.
 
pdxleaf
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ghce ghce
If you could only own one Pocket Watch by choice or law, this would be it!
Hopefully you still have all your Kidneys.
I think it wasn't too bad. Relative to a wristwatch, it was a steal. Relative to a pocket watch, hard to say, as savy collectors are able to find PWs (that aren't precious metal) cheaper than I would have expected.

In short, it was $650 usd, which seemed higher than some with condition problems but cheaper than others I saw. I still need to add the cost for a service, which puts it in the real money category of pocket watches. But I would hope to get more for a kidney, so perhaps not too bad?
 
ghce
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
I think it wasn't too bad. Relative to a wristwatch, it was a steal. Relative to a pocket watch, hard to say, as savy collectors are able to find PWs (that aren't precious metal) cheaper than I would have expected.

In short, it was $650 usd, which seemed higher than some with condition problems but cheaper than others I saw. I still need to add the cost for a service, which puts it in the real money category of pocket watches. But I would hope to get more for a kidney, so perhaps not too bad?
Yes thats getting up there but I would still opt for that over just about any other PW, I must admit though that I am an unashamed fan of Illinois PW's above all others.
As you say cheap in the WW world for what you get but value for money no doubt at all!
Colour me green.
 
Canuck
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
This arrived today from ebay. The seller said he has collected pw for about 40 years and this was an early purchase from an older gentleman at a NAWCC mart. Pretty decent condition, aside from needing a service. No brassing that I can see.

I still know little but knew of the Bunn Special reputation so was looking for one. The Gothic font on this captured my attention. The dial is solid.

It joins my 992, which also has a beautiful dial and keeps fantastic time after its service.

Now to find someone to service it.

20240903_163250.jpg 20240903_163600.jpg 20240903_163739.jpg 20240903_163941.jpg 20240903_164032.jpg 20240903_185508.jpg


The pocketwatchdatabase info on this desirable artifact.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/2069086

My Bunn Special doesn’t hold a candle to @pdxleaf ‘s new addition.

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noelekal
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pdxleaf; I think your new Bunn Special is so fine. I don't have an 18s Illinois and need to rectify that.
 
Canuck
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Several years ago, I was approached by a chap who had a 24-jewel version of the 18-size Bunn Special. He had a handshake deal with a scrapper who wanted the 14-karat gold case for the melt, and the guy needed to know the weight of the case. I removed the movement and weighed the case, then I gave him a better offer than the scrapper had. He stuck with the scrapper’s offer! Several months later, he phoned me and offered the 24-jewel movement to me for $500.00! A much smaller watch might have been easier for him the shove where I told him to shove movement!
 
Bernhard J
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Canuck Canuck
He had a handshake deal with a scrapper who wanted the 14-karat gold case for the melt, and the guy needed to know the weight of the case. I removed the movement and weighed the case, then I gave him a better offer than the scrapper had. He stuck with the scrapper’s offer!
So he simply kept word?
 
pdxleaf
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Canuck Canuck
The pocketwatchdatabase info on this desirable artifact.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/2069086

My Bunn Special doesn’t hold a candle to @pdxleaf ‘s new addition.

P2268621.jpeg P2268623.jpeg
I have a lot to learn. I don't see a huge difference between the two. There's the 2 jewels, dial condition and company name. But they are both model 6, 18s, have the same damaskeening. I wouldn’t think there's a huge difference.
 
Canuck
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Bernhard J Bernhard J
So he simply kept word?
Bernhard J Bernhard J
So he simply kept word?

@Bernhard J ,

He kept his word! In the end, the offer I gave him for the complete watch was only slightly better than the offer the scrapper gave him. Once the scrapper knew the weight of case alone, the offer might have been better. With the scrapper’s offer, and the $500.00 he asked for movement only, he might have come out better than my offer! I’ll never know. But I have often wondered what he might have done with the movement!
 
Waltesefalcon
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
I have a lot to learn. I don't see a huge difference between the two. There's the 2 jewels, dial condition and company name. But they are both model 6, 18s, have the same damaskeening. I wouldn’t think there's a huge difference.
It is those little details that make all the difference. I own a pretty decent example of a 21J model 6 Bunn Special, in a very nice but plain 25 year J Boss case. I would say yours is much more desirable than mine.
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Canuck
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Four local collectors (myself included) participate in two train shows locally, each year. The exhibit consists of 90 pocket watches (90% railroad standard), three railroad standard wall clocks, and about 20 railroad standard wrist watches. In order to be able to assemble this exhibit quickly on show day, preparation is required. Here you see 80 pocket watches (all run, by the way) assembled with individualized display cards to match each watch. There are two other exhibits, watches not shown here. On show day, we can put the display together in about 1/2 hour, but it takes a lot of organizing to make it happen. These cards will be stacked in the order shown and the watches will go into storage cases in the order shown. On show day, it is tick-tack-toe and watches placed in display cabinets with their cards in the order shown. The show happens in mid-September.

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