Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

@Canuck the discrepancy is probably due to the fact that the watch of mine you looked up is my old model 1, grade 101, circa 1883 that I picked up from our own @TexOmega . The watch I had serviced and is keeping remarkable time is my model 2, grade 5, circa 1887. Here is the link for the info on the latter one.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/711580

I can easily see where the confusion came in since I did post two 18s silver cased Illinos in quick succession.

Here they are together. In the first photo the Model 1 is on the left and the model 2 is on the right; in the second the model 1 is on top and the model 2 is on the bottom.

One last thing, thank you for your summary of the usefulness of a timegrapher. I do appreciate the amount of knowledge to bring to this thread.

Is it me, or was there a Swatch watch sub-forum added recently before the (most logical) Pocket Watch one?

The Pocket Watch thread started on Feb. 22, 2021. The subject of Swatch watches has popped up frequently over time, but I am not aware of a dedicated sub-forum which has inspired the following that the Pocket Watch thread has encouraged. Of the few Swatch inspired threads I have uncovered, going back as far as May of 2020, there have been fewer than two dozen replies. That is, until the recent surfacing of the numerous MoonSwatch threads.

Way back in the early 1990s (or thereabouts) when Swatch announced the introduction of the Swatch chronograph, I decided I needed one. Supply was limited, at the time. When a local store finally had inventory, I bought three……….included a JFK model which was a “limited edition” at the time. Fast forward to the recent introduction of the Omega MoonSwatch chronograph that surfaced recently. Will the MoonSwatch chronograph have the legs that the Speedmaster has had? The jury is out on that one.

Thirty-two years ago, I was working for an Omega dealer. I habitually wore my Rolex watches to work. Management came to me and suggested that they wanted me to wear an Omega at work. They asked me to choose a model I would like, and they would sell me one at dealer cost. At that time, I owned a Rolex Oyster Daytona Cosmograph. I chose an Omega Speedmaster 345.0808 with the sapphire back, so I bought mine. I had the feeling at the time (32 years ago) that Omega was going to “milk” the Speedmaster and the association with NASA and the moon landing for what it was worth, and for a loooooong time! That, of course, has proven to be exactly what has happened! Will the MoonSwatch have the same legs?

If there is to be a Swatch sub-forum, let it happen.

If there is to be a Swatch sub forum pop up, I think it'll be a direct result of the moonswatch. I can see all the speedy guys needing to acquire one and thus making them the watch du jour.

Apologies to those who have seen this one many times previously but it has been running away happily on my desk lately,

If an apology to theirs was felt to be necessary for showing a beloved artifact many times, then I am the most guilty of anybody! I’m certain I have shown almost all of my watches, some more than once, but several have been shown countless times. Those of us who post here know what it is to have our favourite watches. It is not necessary to beg forgiveness. We understand!

A bit older than my other National Watch Co.(soon to be Elgin)PW posted earlier.
In a 3oz American Watch Co.(soon to be Waltham) Coin Silver case
Circa 1871 serial # 108667
18s 11j Grade 12 Model #1 M. D. Ogden
Early sharp bridge not wavy
KWKS with key
Works, needs service

Here is the gin on @TexOmega ’s National Watch Co. (Elgin) pocket watch.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/108667

The Elgin fits the Waltham case perfectly. One might wonder if it was cased that way when purchased, or if the re-case happened later on. My understanding is that U S coin silver was 0.900 fine, and European coin silver was 0.800 fine.

Just a FWIW: This movement may have been sold by Hamilton after the takeover but this one was still made by Illinois. The ones Hamilton actually manufactured drop the "Co" from Illinois Watch Co on the bridge and say simply Illinois Watch. That is the mark that the movements were actually made by Hamilton in their factory. (Pictures of both variants are available in the Illinois thread.)

Hmmm......I would think, then, that ALL watches would fit that wonderment, don't ya think?

Pretty high bar, if only watches one buys ones-self "new in box" could be all original.


But I think one cannot wonder if this case is "of the era" and correct. Same for the key.

That's how I evaluate before I buy.

Elgin still hanging around 😀

@Alpha clearly has more confidence on that type of wall hook than l (and possibly many others) have! If that happens to be exposed to unfiltered rays of the sun, the adhesive softens, and guess what.

I really do appreciate the concern but I can assure that it is in a perfectly safe location and as I mentioned previously if the surface that the hook is to be attached to is perfectly cleaned and the hook put in place and left for a few days before attaching a suitable load no problem.

This thread is primarily about pocket watches, as the name implies. Naturally, railroad standard pocket watches appear regularly herein. After the Hamilton Watch Company stopped producing watches circa 1969, the only watch company still producing railroad standard pocket watches was the Ball Watch Co., of Cleveland, Ohio. Ball had procured all of their railroad standard movements from American watch companies. Hamilton was the last U S based manufacturer to fold, circa 1969. Ball continued producing railroad standard pocket watches after Hamilton ceased production. The Swiss Record watch company produced railroad standard pocket watches for Ball. The two models produced for Ball by Record were designated 435 B and 435 C. I am unaware of how long Ball used these movements.

By the early 1960s, there was a move afoot to have wrist watches accepted as railroad standard watches. Hamilton (Electric), Bulova Accutron, Cyma, Girrard Perregaux, Universal, Zenith, Rodania, Wyler, Wittnauer, and Elgin were all in the business. The Ball Watch Company was also in on the ground floor with railroad standard wrist watches. Their primary source of movements was the Swiss Eta company with fully jewelled, self-winding wrist watches called the Ball Trainmaster. The Elgin railroad standard wrist model was called the B W Raymond, a name that Elgin had used for their 16-size and 18-size railroad standard pocket watches.

Recently, a member of the watch collector community locally, got a line on two Ball Trainmasters, and an Elgin B W Raymond model, all railroad standard wrist watches. He asked me to service them, and I took pictures of two of the three. Notice the one on the left has a double hour hand which was convenient for a railroader who regularly crossed a meridian on his trips. These Ball Trainmasters have 24-hour dials since they were used on Canadian railroads. They look pretty much like the railroad standard pocket watches that were in use.

The same collector mentioned above is nibbling on a smack dab gorgeous 16-size, 21-jewel, grade 994, Hamilton railroad watch from the same source. The layout of the movement in this grade 994 is pretty much the same as the Hamilton grades 950, the 950E, the 950 B (all 23-jewels), and the grade 952 (19-jewels). The 994 has an unusual “snailing” damask finish on the plates, different to the others mentioned. It has a gold centre wheel, fourth wheel, and third wheel, and gold jewel settings. The double-sunk 12-hour dial and the original Hamilton swing-ring case are original, and are perfect. If you read about this watch in the pocketwatchdatabase.com listing, you will see that it is quite rare.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/hamilton/1080347

I recently showed a picture of a recent acquisition of mine. My private label pocket watch (Porte and Markle, Winnipeg). The movement is Swiss, by Electa/Gallet. If you do a visual comparison with the Hamilton 994 in my previous post, you might well conclude that the Electa/Gallet is a copy of the Hamilton grade 994. Or is the Hamilton, the copy? Who knows. Now that I think of it, the 994 was based on the Hamilton 950 which came along before the Electa/Gallet. So I suspect the Electa Gallet is the copy. Who really knows.

Watchmakers copying other watchmakers?

I've never heard of such a thing 😲.

😉

After a side by side comparison of the two movements, this is the most obvious conclusion I can come to. The Electa/Gallet is not railroad approved, and the Hamilton 994 is. But cosmetically, the similarities are obvious.

Picked this one up for cheap off Ebay a while back and am presenting it for evaluation. I'd thought I'd concentrate on railroad grade pocket watches, but this one was calling to me for some reason. It's an Illinois Capitol 21 jewel pendant set with a 606 movement from 1920 as best I can tell from internet research. I'm always ready to glean more information.

Because it's pendent set and has three adjustments it doesn't make the grade as a railroad watch, but it's a great runner and a pleasingly accurate time keeper over a week's time. These photos don't do it justice. It's a more rosy gold than shown here and the scratches on the reverse aren't so pronounced, the movement glints and sparkles in good light, and it has a clean glass crystal. Has a neato "red ball" dial which apparently was used with the Capitol model. It looks great on one of DaveK's burgundy lanyards.

One lonely screw holding the movement is mismatched. Bet it's suppose to be brass like the rest. Wonder how difficult it would be to find a brass replacement?

Here’s what the pocketdatabase.com says about @noelekal ‘s Illinois.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/3735954

Here’s what the Meggers & Ehrhardt “blue” book on Illinois has to say about it:

“Temperature, 3 positions, isochronism, jewels in raised settings, rounded spoke train wheels and polished gold centre wheel, patent regulator, gold or black inlaid engraving, gilded or nickel polished oval head plate screws, double sunk glass (vitreous enamel) dial. Produced between 1912 and 1927.”

“The grade 606 is slightly higher grade than the 600-series grades. All but the earlier serial number movements in the series are “double roller” equipped. “ (This one is marked “double roller”).

This one appears to have gold third and fourth wheels as well as the aforementioned gold centre wheel. The gold colour screw heads and regulator parts add a rich look. This watch is adjusted for isochronism, it has the patent regulator, and as much as the “blue book” doesn’t indicate that it is temperature compensated, I’m sure it must be. So it almost certainly would have been approved for urban or inter-urban use on railroads. Unusual spherical five-minute markers in red are characteristic of dials on Ball watch company watches. I wouldn’t have turned my nose up at @noelekal ’s watch! Nice