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Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs
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Canuck
·@Waltesefalcon ,
I have two model 2 Illinois, grade 4, Railroaders. These two, and yours, are transitional key/stem winders. These are in hunter cases which yours likely would have been, originally. However, my two have only 11 jewels. Yours (according to the pocketwatchdatabase.com site) has 15-jewels. Looks in nice shape. All I will say about my two is that they run! Both shown here. This is the only Illinois model that was ever produced, that had an image engraved on the plates. Funny, though. It was not considered railroad grade when it was made!
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/711580
I have two model 2 Illinois, grade 4, Railroaders. These two, and yours, are transitional key/stem winders. These are in hunter cases which yours likely would have been, originally. However, my two have only 11 jewels. Yours (according to the pocketwatchdatabase.com site) has 15-jewels. Looks in nice shape. All I will say about my two is that they run! Both shown here. This is the only Illinois model that was ever produced, that had an image engraved on the plates. Funny, though. It was not considered railroad grade when it was made!
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/711580
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Waltesefalcon
·@Canuck , I have wondered about the case on mine. It's a fairly nice and heavy sterling case, so I don't suspect that the orginal case was scrapped. I suppose that if it were being used by a rail road worker it might have been recased when standards changed to exclude hunting cases.
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Canuck
·@Canuck , I have wondered about the case on mine. It's a fairly nice and heavy sterling case, so I don't suspect that the orginal case was scrapped. I suppose that if it were being used by a rail road worker it might have been recased when standards changed to exclude hunting cases.
This movement was likely sold NOT cased. To be cased in a case of the buyer’s choice at the store. So anything is possible. Your case doesn’t show any extraneous marks as might be found had a different movement ever resided in that case. But generally, that would be considered a hunter case movement. Whatever. It’s an exceptional watch.
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Waltesefalcon
·Why thank you, I think it's a rather nice one myself. Like you, I tend to think of these movements as belonging in a hunter case, so I just speculate a bit on why it's in an open face case.
I think that the engraving of the locomotive on your grade 4 is stunning. It makes me wish they'd carried it over to the grade 5 as well.
I think that the engraving of the locomotive on your grade 4 is stunning. It makes me wish they'd carried it over to the grade 5 as well.
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Canuck
·Why thank you, I think it's a rather nice one myself. Like you, I tend to think of these movements as belonging in a hunter case, so I just speculate a bit on why it's in an open face case.
I think that the engraving of the locomotive on your grade 4 is stunning. It makes me wish they'd carried it over to the grade 5 as well.
The engraving of the locomotive on the Model 2, grade 4 Illinois Railroader movements were hand engraved. Each engraving was as individual as a finger print. Here are my two, side by each.
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Waltesefalcon
·Those are gorgeous train engravings. I find it interesting that the grade 4 has the trains while the grade 5 has a more elaborate pattern engraved on the balance bridge and fancier lettering. I'd say it's an equitable trade off, because I'll be looking for a grade 4 now to help fill in my little collection.
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Canuck
·Those are gorgeous train engravings. I find it interesting that the grade 4 has the trains while the grade 5 has a more elaborate pattern engraved on the balance bridge and fancier lettering. I'd say it's an equitable trade off, because I'll be looking for a grade 4 now to help fill in my little collection.
These are fairly scarce. I have read there were 4,500 model 2, grade 4 regulators made. Neither of mine are “prime” examples. I like yours because of the higher jewel count. You showed your Illinois in the Illinois Pocket Watch thread, and as I recall, yours is a coin silver case. I have a weakness for coin silver cases. I have an Illinois model 1 (key wind, key set in a coin silver hunter case. This one has only 7 jewels, 😬. I like the watch, but I very much dislike 7-jewel movements.
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Waltesefalcon
·These are fairly scarce. I have read there were 4,500 model 2, grade 4 regulators made. Neither of mine are “prime” examples. I like yours because of the higher jewel count. You showed your Illinois in the Illinois Pocket Watch thread, and as I recall, yours is a coin silver case. I have a weakness for coin silver cases. I have an Illinois model 1 (key wind, key set in a coin silver hunter case. This one has only 7 jewels, 😬. I like the watch, but I very much dislike 7-jewel movements.
Mine is, indeed, in a nice coin silver case, and I too like the higher jewel count. Considering it's age it's a rather fine timepiece.
I also have a model 1 (7j) in a coin silver case that I picked up from @TexOmega awhile back. It's a watch I like, but in comparison to my grade 5 model 2 which is only four years newer it's like something from the stone age.
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Oku
·Just posted this on another thread, but this thread here needs more European watches. So here we go with an Audemars Frères quarter repeater:
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Oku
·And another Audemars Frères without complication but with its original box:
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Alpha
··Kilt Owner, Beagle Parent, Omega CollectorSome fresh air for the Elgin this evening,
Perhaps one day in the not too distant future I will ad another p.w.
Perhaps one day in the not too distant future I will ad another p.w.
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Canuck
·Some fresh air for the Elgin this evening,
Perhaps one day in the not too distant future I will ad another p.w.
Your Elgin might be from an era when Elgin (and the other U S A makers) shipped their movements, uncased. The long pendant on yours is indicative of an era when these long pendants were fashionable. By about the mid 1920s, these companies were shipping most of their movements, cased in cases with shorter pendants. You don’t give any information re: your Elgin, but if the case is original to the movement, it is likely well over 100 years old.
If @Alpha or anyone else is interested in learning more about a specific Elgin, or of the company itself, check out Wayne Schlitz’s excellent Elgin website.
http://elginwatches.org/
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Fritz
·bought real cheap because needed a click for the winding mechanism I think I did okay on this as it keeps really good time after being serviced.
besides... it says "special" right on it, so it must be!
besides... it says "special" right on it, so it must be!
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Canuck
·Here’s the scoop on @Fritz ’s barn find.
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/5110950
This one would have been made after Hamilton acquired Illinois. My copy of the Meggers & Ehrhardt ”blue book” indicates this confection was made, likely early in 1928. After 1930, the dial on the 60-hour Bunn Special was available with a dial marked ILLINOIS BUNN SPECIAL (below the 12), and 21-JEWELS 60 HOUR above the seconds bit.
An ideal situation. A highly collectible watch requiring a minor repair, that comes at a major discount. I get the feeling I’m looking in the wrong places. Good for you, @Fritz .
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/5110950
This one would have been made after Hamilton acquired Illinois. My copy of the Meggers & Ehrhardt ”blue book” indicates this confection was made, likely early in 1928. After 1930, the dial on the 60-hour Bunn Special was available with a dial marked ILLINOIS BUNN SPECIAL (below the 12), and 21-JEWELS 60 HOUR above the seconds bit.
An ideal situation. A highly collectible watch requiring a minor repair, that comes at a major discount. I get the feeling I’m looking in the wrong places. Good for you, @Fritz .
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Fritz
·Here’s the scoop on @Fritz ’s barn find.
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/5110950
This one would have been made after Hamilton acquired Illinois. My copy of the Meggers & Ehrhardt ”blue book” indicates this confection was made, likely early in 1928. After 1930, the dial on the 60-hour Bunn Special was available with a dial marked ILLINOIS BUNN SPECIAL (below the 12), and 21-JEWELS 60 HOUR above the seconds bit.
An ideal situation. A highly collectible watch requiring a minor repair, that comes at a major discount. I get the feeling I’m looking in the wrong places. Good for you, @Fritz .
The best one has to be this Appleton Tracy & Co. Premier model 92 I found in the parts/scrap bin at my watch maker's shop. I was looking for a case for another watch and unscrewed the back on this puppy even though the case was total trash. To say I was shocked is an understatement. A new case, dial & regulator arm later we have...
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Canuck
·
The best one has to be this Appleton Tracy & Co. Premier model 92 I found in the parts/scrap bin at my watch maker's shop. I was looking for a case for another watch and unscrewed the back on this puppy even though the case was total trash. To say I was shocked is an understatement. A new case, dial & regulator arm later we have...
The 1892 model Waltham is one of my all time favourite 18-size watches. I have only one. Almost a twin to yours. This one is marked “Canadian Railway Time Service”. Railroads in Canada approved these 17-jewel, stem set models. I’m assuming your Appleton Tracy is stem set? You have to have an immense liking for a watch that you find that needs a bunch of parts, and also needs much work.
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Fritz
·
The 1892 model Waltham is one of my all time favourite 18-size watches. I have only one. Almost a twin to yours. This one is marked “Canadian Railway Time Service”. Railroads in Canada approved these 17-jewel, stem set models. I’m assuming your Appleton Tracy is stem set? You have to have an immense liking for a watch that you find that needs a bunch of parts, and also needs much work.
also in the inventory
1900 Vanguard, pendant set....
1914 CPR
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Waltesefalcon
·Last week I decided to run a practical experiment with my old 1887 Illinois that I just got back from a service. On my timegrapher it was gaining between 7 and 15 seconds per day with a fluctuating amplitude that fluctuated between 220° and 233°.
Last Sunday at 6:00 I set my watch with my clock that synchronizes with the Naval Observatory. After a week of winding it at 6:00 every evening and wearing it for five of the seven days, I checked the watch against my clock and it has gained eighteen seconds in that week.
What I found to be especially interesting is how much better it performed over a week than what was suggested after running it on the timegrapher.
Last Sunday at 6:00 I set my watch with my clock that synchronizes with the Naval Observatory. After a week of winding it at 6:00 every evening and wearing it for five of the seven days, I checked the watch against my clock and it has gained eighteen seconds in that week.
What I found to be especially interesting is how much better it performed over a week than what was suggested after running it on the timegrapher.
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Canuck
·@Waltesefalcon ,
Your Illinois is the 15-jewel, railroad approved one you showed earlier in this thread. I don’t appear to have uploaded the information pertaining to your watch from the pocketwatchdatabase.com site. So here it is.
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/281372
While the above listing says it is not railroad grade, it could well have been circa 1885, when it was made. Many railroads had their own General Time Inspector, rather than to subscribe to the services offered by Ball, Montgomery, and who knows how many other time service outfits that there were. If a railroad hired their own general time inspector, he could pick and choose what parameters applied to watches used on their rails. Your watch was produced about 4 years after a system of Standard Time was introduced in this hemisphere. Until standard time was firmly ensconced, railroads had far bigger problems than standards for watches.
In my estimation, the best way to rate a watch after it has been evaluated on a timing machine, is with the wearer actually wearing it, and keeping close tabs on the rate. Timing machines are great in the work shop for troubleshooting and adjusting the watch to even out the rates. But the pocket or the wrist of the wearer is the best place to decide if further regulating is necessary. A watch may be adjusted to six positions, but the timing machine helps determine a mean average over those six positions. In the real world, a watch may spend most of its time in three or four positions, and those positions may not be equally weighted.
Considering the vintage of your Illinois, I’d have to say that it is giving excellent results.
Your Illinois is the 15-jewel, railroad approved one you showed earlier in this thread. I don’t appear to have uploaded the information pertaining to your watch from the pocketwatchdatabase.com site. So here it is.
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/281372
While the above listing says it is not railroad grade, it could well have been circa 1885, when it was made. Many railroads had their own General Time Inspector, rather than to subscribe to the services offered by Ball, Montgomery, and who knows how many other time service outfits that there were. If a railroad hired their own general time inspector, he could pick and choose what parameters applied to watches used on their rails. Your watch was produced about 4 years after a system of Standard Time was introduced in this hemisphere. Until standard time was firmly ensconced, railroads had far bigger problems than standards for watches.
In my estimation, the best way to rate a watch after it has been evaluated on a timing machine, is with the wearer actually wearing it, and keeping close tabs on the rate. Timing machines are great in the work shop for troubleshooting and adjusting the watch to even out the rates. But the pocket or the wrist of the wearer is the best place to decide if further regulating is necessary. A watch may be adjusted to six positions, but the timing machine helps determine a mean average over those six positions. In the real world, a watch may spend most of its time in three or four positions, and those positions may not be equally weighted.
Considering the vintage of your Illinois, I’d have to say that it is giving excellent results.