Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Alpha · Feb 14, 2022

Remembered I have this information kindly provided by Enrico on WUS eight years ago.

Sorry for the poor dial shot

Edited to add that I actually purchased this piece from a Brocante in the Pyrenees- Atlantiqes Department of France

Canuck · Feb 14, 2022

That describes the case maker. As with so many names found on watches of the era that originated in Europe, information on the dial name may be impossible to find. I have run into watches from Europe that had vitreous enamel dials with enamel numerals, that had the maker’s or retailer’s name printed on the dial in India ink! Don’t ask how I found that out!

Danwales · Feb 16, 2022

I couldn't resist this little find in a charity shop earlier. A thin watch, blued hands and a sort of art deco look to the crown. I know nothing about pocket watches and I might never get it up an running but i quite like it. No name on dial or movement though. If anyone has any information on this I would be most grateful.

Canuck · Feb 16, 2022

Danwales

I couldn't resist this little find in a charity shop earlier. A thin watch, blued hands and a sort of art deco look to the crown. I know nothing about pocket watches and I might never get it up an running but i quite like it. No name on dial or movement though. If anyone has any information on this I would be most grateful.

You don’t show a picture of the inside of the case back, but there may well be a trade mark to be found there. It may be the case maker’s trade mark, but it could also be a watch brand name. Please let us know. The maker of the case and the maker of the mechanism will not be the same company. There may be a maker’s name of the mechanism (the movement), behind the dial. My guess is the watch is likely from the late 1920s or 1930s. I suspect the case may be either steel, or an alloy such as “Staybrite”, or nickel silver. The metal content in the case may also be marked inside the case back. It looks to have had little use, and provided you will derive pleasure out of using it, it looks like a good candidate for servicing.

Danwales · Feb 16, 2022

Hi, I can only see a serial number on the back.

Canuck · Feb 16, 2022

If only manufacturers of watches in an era such as yours was from, had given some thought to the possibility of their product might still exist decades after they were made, and that thosewho collect them might have an interest in the pedigree of their product. It is my opinion that the Swiss were more inclined to produce generic, unidentifiable watches than any other country. The movement in your watch might still be identified as to the maker, but the maker’s name will not likely be one you would recognize as an actual identifiable brand name. People who only marketed watches, generally relied on other people who made watches for inventory. If we could see what there is to see behind the dial, there is a chance we might know more. Clearly, the case is not supplying any clues.

Danwales · Feb 16, 2022

I agree and it's a shame. I had a real buzz of anticipation as I scurried home with it earlier. I couldn't wait to open it and see what it was. A nice little buzz you sometimes get from this hobby. I'm going to keep the watch and when funds permit ( could be 5 years, could be 10) I will get it up and running again. It's thin case gives it a tactile quality and I could see myself carrying this in an inside pocket of a suit jacket.

Thank-you for the reply @Canuck

Alpha · Feb 19, 2022

Elgin in action this evening 😀

Canuck · Feb 19, 2022

Here’s what the pocketwatchdatabase.com says about @Alpha ’s neat Elgin.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/17499124

The case finish has stood up well over approx. 108 years. Made circa 1914, at a time a major shift away from pocket watches to wrist watches had begun. Lots of watches contemporary to this Elgin might have seen a few years use, then stuck in a sock drawer because the owner had changed to a wrist watch.

Production numbers indicate this is not a rare watch, but it appears to be in excellent condition. Elgin was the largest U S producer of quality jewelled watches. Originally named the National Watch Company. Owing to the many watch factories in the North East U S A, each of which had a unique name, popular usage amongst the population was to refer to these companies by their location, rather than the official name. Hence, the National Watch Co. (Elgin, Ill) became Elgin. The Springfield Watch Company (Springfield, Ill) became the Illinois Watch Co. And the American Watch Company (Waltham, Mass.), eventually became Waltham.

An excellent photograph, by the way.

Danwales · Feb 20, 2022

In an effort to find out more about my recent find I put out a post on Instagram. One chap suggested it could be an unmarked Marconi which was a subsidiary of Rolex. The pics above do indeed show a Marconi with what I believe to be the same movement. My investigation continues.

Canuck · Feb 20, 2022

Mikrolisk indeed indicates that the Marconi name was copyrighted by Rolex. However, I doubt very much that the watch was actually made by Rolex. I would still like to see whether there are any clues on the movement, under the dial.

Danwales · Feb 20, 2022

Canuck
Mikrolisk indeed indicates that the Marconi name was copyrighted by Rolex. However, I doubt very much that the watch was actually made by Rolex. I would still like to see whether there are any clues on the movement, under the dial.

Somebody suggested it might have been made by Cortebert but I haven't seen a similar movement which is dissimilar to a lot of pocket watch movements in that much of the gubbins is covered by the plates.

Danwales · Feb 20, 2022

In my dreams it would have been one of these but I am afraid it's wishful thinking!

Canuck · Feb 20, 2022

I checked the Ranfft archive to see if there was anything made by Cortebert that looked similar. There was nothing even close.

Danwales · Feb 20, 2022

Canuck
I checked the Ranfft archive to see if there was anything made by Cortebert that looked similar. There was nothing even close.

Appreciate you checking.

noelekal · Feb 26, 2022

Question for the Forum.

Why "half-round" pocket watch case screws? What purpose does that screw head serve?

Canuck · Feb 26, 2022

Those are often called a “dogged” case screw. When a pocket watch movement is fitted with these, it is often possible to remove the movement from the case without having to remove the case screws. Simply back the screw off sufficiently that the screw head will pass by the lip in the case as the movement is removed. I find these screws to generally be more of an annoyance rather than a convenience!

kip595 · Feb 26, 2022

Came across this one today at a local antique shop my girlfriend wanted to peruse (candelabras...why we need candelabras I dunno, but that's disirregardless, as a fella once so incorrectly said) - of course, I asked if they had any watches, of which the following seemed intriguing, but as I'm not a pocket watch guy, know nada about:

Unfortunately trying to take a few pics in a hurry this was the best I was able to get, particularly against the spidered plexi of the case under it. The tag read "Waltham Circa 1910-20; 'Royal', 17 jewel, Hunter Case"

The watch is a crown wind model and did start right up with a few twists and seemed to be running smoothly and in time with my P.O. for the 20 seconds or so I timed it - I'm sure it would need an oil and cleaning at the least. No hallmarks I could make out anywhere, which leads me to suspect GF rather than SG; the retainer clasp also snaps crisply closed which IIRC may suggest steel under the gold as well, given hos quickly the clasp can ear down gold for those who weren't careful with this design.

I had no way to measure but it was on the small side for a PW, perhaps 42-46mm w/o crown - between that, the case, the Roman dial vs. RR Arabic, and the obvious (but surprisingly unused) area for an initials monogram, it seemed very much to either be a smaller gent's dress piece or a surprisingly large ladies piece, perhaps meant for travel.

Can anyone clue me in on this little guy at all? I figure I'd be several hundred in by the time I get it fully up to spec, or close to, but the lack of wear on even the crystal or coin edging was surprising to me and got me interested.

P.S. My apologies for the lack of movement shots as this has a pry/pop-off dust cover and the shopkeep was understandably reticent to let me ease my old Case's blade in there, but his area is mainly furniture and paintings, so that may remain a mystery unless I decide to make an offer and insist - with a proper case knife of course, not my Case pocket folder!

Canuck · Feb 26, 2022

kip595
Came across this one today at a local antique shop my girlfriend wanted to peruse (candelabras...why we need candelabras I dunno, but that's disirregardless, as a fella once so incorrectly said) - of course, I asked if they had any watches, of which the following seemed intriguing, but as I'm not a pocket watch guy, know nada about:

Unfortunately trying to take a few pics in a hurry this was the best I was able to get, particularly against the spidered plexi of the case under it. The tag read "Waltham Circa 1910-20; 'Royal', 17 jewel, Hunter Case"

The watch is a crown wind model and did start right up with a few twists and seemed to be running smoothly and in time with my P.O. for the 20 seconds or so I timed it - I'm sure it would need an oil and cleaning at the least. No hallmarks I could make out anywhere, which leads me to suspect GF rather than SG; the retainer clasp also snaps crisply closed which IIRC may suggest steel under the gold as well, given hos quickly the clasp can ear down gold for those who weren't careful with this design.

I had no way to measure but it was on the small side for a PW, perhaps 42-46mm w/o crown - between that, the case, the Roman dial vs. RR Arabic, and the obvious (but surprisingly unused) area for an initials monogram, it seemed very much to either be a smaller gent's dress piece or a surprisingly large ladies piece, perhaps meant for travel.

Can anyone clue me in on this little guy at all? I figure I'd be several hundred in by the time I get it fully up to spec, or close to, but the lack of wear on even the crystal or coin edging was surprising to me and got me interested.

P.S. My apologies for the lack of movement shots as this has a pry/pop-off dust cover and the shopkeep was understandably reticent to let me ease my old Case's blade in there, but his area is mainly furniture and paintings, so that may remain a mystery unless I decide to make an offer and insist - with a proper case knife of course, not my Case pocket folder!

There is a tag attached to the bow. I assume that there is no information on the tag which is the reason you didn’t give us the details? The diameters you quote sound like case diameters, and since the size range, smaller to larger, is 4 mm, I assume you didn’t measure the diameter? I suspect the movement is either a 12-size (movement diameter 38.5 mm), or a 16-size (movement diameter 43.2 mm). I very much doubt it is a 14-size (movement diameter 41.5 mm). Your comment about the small(ish) size has me leaning more to the 12-size. With the movement serial number, we could fill in a number of blanks. The case looks to be in excellent shape, the barleycorn decoration showing little to no wear. The blank shield is called a “cartouche”. (French for cartridge.) The case is most likely gold filled. The dial is vitreous enamel, and appears to be in excellent shape. The movement must be engraved ROYAL, which likely means someone had the case open. The name could well refer to Royal E. Robbins who (in the early days of Waltham), bought the company after it went belly up. If you get us the movement s#, we can give you much more information.

kip595 · Feb 26, 2022

Canuck
There is a tag attached to the bow. I assume that there is no information on the tag which is the reason you didn’t give us the details? The diameters you quote sound like case diameters, and since the size range, smaller to larger, is 4 mm, I assume you didn’t measure the diameter? I suspect the movement is either a 12-size (movement diameter 38.5 mm), or a 16-size (movement diameter 43.2 mm). I very much doubt it is a 14-size (movement diameter 41.5 mm). Your comment about the small(ish) size has me leaning more to the 12-size. With the movement serial number, we could fill in a number of blanks. The case looks to be in excellent shape, the barleycorn decoration showing little to no wear. The blank shield is called a “cartouche”. (French for cartridge.) The case is most likely gold filled. The dial is vitreous enamel, and appears to be in excellent shape. The movement must be engraved ROYAL, which likely means someone had the case open. The name could well refer to Royal E. Robbins who (in the early days of Waltham), bought the company after it went belly up. If you get us the movement s#, we can give you much more information.

If I can get the case open and get the number, happily. The tag had no info but when I asked got the above quoted info from the shopkeep - he looked it up in a notepad he had; "Waltham Circa 1910-20; 'Royal', 17 jewel, Hunter Case" which he said he'd forgotten to add to the ticket - if it's changed at all if/when I go back I'll try to grab a new pic. The size is a guesstimate next to my 42mm P.O. which this seemed very slightly larger than, so I too would imagine a 12-size as you describe.