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Canuck
·I realize you didn’t ask, but here it is, anyway. Wearing it again today.
Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs
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DaveK
··Yoda of Yodelers
A local pick up today, 1936 Waltham Crescent Street 21j watch in it’s original box. Photos and details to come after lunch 😀
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Canuck
·A twin to mine, by golly. Mine has a 14-karat case. Mine was also acquired with the display case, outer shell, and linen sachet from the case maker, Keystone. Mine is from 1937, and I get the impression the recipient never used it! I don’t generally collect 12-size watches, but I was unable to turn this one down. I bought it for less than a scrap gold price, at auction!
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Alpha
··Kilt Owner, Beagle Parent, Omega CollectorMy old French friend having an outing this evening 😀
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Bob Neville
·I posted some time ago that my father-in-law inherited about 25 pocket watches from his father who made his living repairing watches for several years after WW2 when he got out of the Army Air Corps. I know my FIL would like to sell most of them except a couple that have sentimental value, but neither of us know enough to understand values. I asked a local jeweler while I was in his shop getting something for my daughter, and he said he's not interested unless it's rare, manufactured by a high-end company, or gold. He said there's just not enough of a demand in his shop for him to tie-up money in common pocket watches.
Here are some pictures of one of the gold watches (stamped "14K" on inside of outer case back cover and inner case back cover)
This one unfortunately doesn't work. The crown turns freely and "clicks", but the action feels very light like it's not actually rotating anything in the movement mechanism.
Condition #2 made me laugh - "This watch shall not be sold to anyone designated by the manufacturer as objectionable" ...I guess I better make sure my FIL and I check with them before selling this potentially to someone "objectionable"!
Any opinions on value would be welcome - just want to help my FIL clear some of this stuff out and maybe have some extra spending cash for a vacation.
Thanks!
Here are some pictures of one of the gold watches (stamped "14K" on inside of outer case back cover and inner case back cover)
This one unfortunately doesn't work. The crown turns freely and "clicks", but the action feels very light like it's not actually rotating anything in the movement mechanism.
Condition #2 made me laugh - "This watch shall not be sold to anyone designated by the manufacturer as objectionable" ...I guess I better make sure my FIL and I check with them before selling this potentially to someone "objectionable"!
Any opinions on value would be welcome - just want to help my FIL clear some of this stuff out and maybe have some extra spending cash for a vacation.
Thanks!
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amcclell
·That is a beautiful set. Unfortunately, I can't help you with the value.
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Canuck
·To try to place a value on your Howard, check out the link I’ve included.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Howard Pocket Watches&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-156598-701868-2&mkcid=2&keyword=howard pocket watches&crlp=435124589180_&MT_ID=585696&geo_id=10232&rlsatarget=kwd-302153206041&adpos=&device=t&mktype=&loc=9001326&poi=&abcId=1141926&cmpgn=6541644917&sitelnk=&adgroupid=79966607433&network=g&matchtype=p&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2MainOjH8wIVgDytBh39bgdiEAAYASAAEgJGxPD_BwE
You will find a wide range of sense of value among Howard pocket watch owners who are offering them for sale. Putting a value on your watch could be based on a/scrap value, b/liquidation value, c/secondary market wholesale (what a dealer might pay), d/secondary market retail (what a dealer might sell it for. i. e. Insurance replacement value.), or e/new replacement value. Based on these considerations, it is pretty much your judgement call as to establishing a value for the watch.
If your intention in placing a value on the watch is with the purpose of selling it, you will likely find that it is buyers who have the greatest input into establishing market value on items, rather than sellers! If placing a value on it is for insurance purposes, that is a totally different consideration.
The watch is a 12-size model. There are collectors who collect watches of this size, though I get the feeling that the most popular sizes among pocket watch collectors is the larger 16-size, or 18-size.
in your pictures, nowhere do you show good, clear, well lit pictures of the stampings inside the case back(s).
in short, putting a meaningful value on items such as your watch is not a simple matter. Some folks might say it is worth the scrap value of the case, because the watch doesn’t run.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Howard Pocket Watches&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-156598-701868-2&mkcid=2&keyword=howard pocket watches&crlp=435124589180_&MT_ID=585696&geo_id=10232&rlsatarget=kwd-302153206041&adpos=&device=t&mktype=&loc=9001326&poi=&abcId=1141926&cmpgn=6541644917&sitelnk=&adgroupid=79966607433&network=g&matchtype=p&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2MainOjH8wIVgDytBh39bgdiEAAYASAAEgJGxPD_BwE
You will find a wide range of sense of value among Howard pocket watch owners who are offering them for sale. Putting a value on your watch could be based on a/scrap value, b/liquidation value, c/secondary market wholesale (what a dealer might pay), d/secondary market retail (what a dealer might sell it for. i. e. Insurance replacement value.), or e/new replacement value. Based on these considerations, it is pretty much your judgement call as to establishing a value for the watch.
If your intention in placing a value on the watch is with the purpose of selling it, you will likely find that it is buyers who have the greatest input into establishing market value on items, rather than sellers! If placing a value on it is for insurance purposes, that is a totally different consideration.
The watch is a 12-size model. There are collectors who collect watches of this size, though I get the feeling that the most popular sizes among pocket watch collectors is the larger 16-size, or 18-size.
in your pictures, nowhere do you show good, clear, well lit pictures of the stampings inside the case back(s).
in short, putting a meaningful value on items such as your watch is not a simple matter. Some folks might say it is worth the scrap value of the case, because the watch doesn’t run.
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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Pvt-Public
·What is this bit on the mainspring barrel for?
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Canuck
·
That is the “stopworks”. When the stopworks is properly set up, it means that the mainspring will never be completely run down, nor will it ever be fully wound. This means that the mainspring will be operating in the “middle turns”.
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Pvt-Public
·That is the “stopworks”. When the stopworks is properly set up, it means that the mainspring will never be completely run down, nor will it ever be fully wound. This means that the mainspring will be operating in the “middle turns”.
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Canuck
·Thank you 😀👍. Is there any real advantage to that? Sorry for all the questions, but enquiring minds want to know.
it is very seldom when stop works are found on watches. Chain driven watches with fusees, chain driven marine chronometers with fusees, and weight driven grandfather clocks on which the weights are hung on cables, almost always have stop works. In the case of the Howard pocket watch with the stop works, the only advantage I can think of is, as I said, the mainspring operates in the middle turns. This means that friction between the mainspring coils when the spring is fully wound, is reduced, because the spring is never fully wound. As well, friction between the coils as the watch is nearly run down is also reduced, because the spring never fully runs down. That is what is meant by the term “middle turns”.
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JimInOz
··Melbourne AustraliaThank you 😀👍. Is there any real advantage to that? Sorry for all the questions, but enquiring minds want to know.
As @Canuck explained, it prevents "full wind" (which produces excessive torque) of the mainspring when correctly set up, therefore the mainspring only effectively uses the "middle turns".
Here's a small chart from David Boettcher's excellent website that illustrates the principle.
For a deeper understanding, see here.
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Pvt-Public
·Thank you both for the answer.
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Canuck
·Stop works are usually applied to any time keeper that is chain driven. Such time pieces usually are fitted with a fusee (requiring another explanation, I suppose). In such timepieces, the stop works is fitted to prevent overwinding, resulting in a broken fusee chain. This type of stop works usually only comes into effect at the full wind state of the timepiece, and not at the run down state. In these timepieces, the length of the chain effectively limits how far the mainspring runs down, and the stop works limits how far the spring is wound up. The effect being that the mainspring operates only in the middle turns.
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Canuck
·My Vibrograph model B200 (shown) was purchased by my late father, in 1970. It is 51 years old. It was my standby timing machine until about 5 years ago, when it became so unreliable that I had to discontinue using it. I went to a modern Timegrapher (also shown). I had resisted the temptation to send the B200 for recycling, for the past 5 years.
Recently, a friend was here, and I was assisting him with a watch project he was working on. I had what he needed. While in my shop, he spied my forlorn looking B200 sitting there, neglected. I told him about it. He told me he thought he could repair it. Well, on Tuesday of this week, he phoned to say it was ready to come home. He lives about 30 kms south of here, so I drove down to pick it up. We made a deal. I had an Accutron 214 in a gold filled case, from 1964 that he really likes. One of my nicer ones which I had recently serviced. He became the owner of a real nice Accutron on a NOS vintage gold filled, period correct, expansion bracelet, and I have a B200 timing machine that works again.
This fellow is an electronic genius, only one of his many talents. He found that the B200 was filthy inside, but the electronics were in good order. He cleaned it up, lubricated the mechanical components, cleaned some switches, replaced several capacitors, made numerous adjustments to the electronics and the mechanical bits, and he found out that the irreplaceable pickup microphone was in good order. My machine works again.
In the picture, you will see my much touted private label, Swiss pocket watch which I have been tuning. As of today, it is 45 seconds fast in the past 5 days, although the rate on the timer shows a gain of only a few seconds a day with the 12 up. The rate varies in other positions. I am over the MOON!
Recently, a friend was here, and I was assisting him with a watch project he was working on. I had what he needed. While in my shop, he spied my forlorn looking B200 sitting there, neglected. I told him about it. He told me he thought he could repair it. Well, on Tuesday of this week, he phoned to say it was ready to come home. He lives about 30 kms south of here, so I drove down to pick it up. We made a deal. I had an Accutron 214 in a gold filled case, from 1964 that he really likes. One of my nicer ones which I had recently serviced. He became the owner of a real nice Accutron on a NOS vintage gold filled, period correct, expansion bracelet, and I have a B200 timing machine that works again.
This fellow is an electronic genius, only one of his many talents. He found that the B200 was filthy inside, but the electronics were in good order. He cleaned it up, lubricated the mechanical components, cleaned some switches, replaced several capacitors, made numerous adjustments to the electronics and the mechanical bits, and he found out that the irreplaceable pickup microphone was in good order. My machine works again.
In the picture, you will see my much touted private label, Swiss pocket watch which I have been tuning. As of today, it is 45 seconds fast in the past 5 days, although the rate on the timer shows a gain of only a few seconds a day with the 12 up. The rate varies in other positions. I am over the MOON!
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TexOmega
·Circa 1901 American Waltham
18s 17j
GF “Box”(shoulders) Hunter case with coin edge
Louis 14th Hands
“Fancy Dial”
18s 17j
GF “Box”(shoulders) Hunter case with coin edge
Louis 14th Hands
“Fancy Dial”
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Canuck
·Indeed a treasure. Case made before rules tightened up as to how gold filled or rolled gold plated cases were marked. Marked14-karat, 25 years. The Illinois Watch Case Co. was not affiliated with the Illinois Watch Co.
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TexOmega
·
Circa 1927
Model 3 grade 345
12s 17j
Hand tooled White GF case
Blued Hands
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Out of TIME!
·I'll re-post this here as a reminder that Ingersoll-Trenton made at least one nice watch.
RR grade and approved on a spur or two........IN THE US😁
15 or so are documented
Advertised as......."21j performance
My Vibrograph model B200 (shown) was purchased by my late father, in 1970. It is 51 years old. It was my standby timing machine until about 5 years ago, when it became so unreliable that I had to discontinue using it. I went to a modern Timegrapher (also shown). I had resisted the temptation to send the B200 for recycling, for the past 5 years.
Recently, a friend was here, and I was assisting him with a watch project he was working on. I had what he needed. While in my shop, he spied my forlorn looking B200 sitting there, neglected. I told him about it. He told me he thought he could repair it. Well, on Tuesday of this week, he phoned to say it was ready to come home. He lives about 30 kms south of here, so I drove down to pick it up. We made a deal. I had an Accutron 214 in a gold filled case, from 1964 that he really likes. One of my nicer ones which I had recently serviced. He became the owner of a real nice Accutron on a NOS vintage gold filled, period correct, expansion bracelet, and I have a B200 timing machine that works again.
This fellow is an electronic genius, only one of his many talents. He found that the B200 was filthy inside, but the electronics were in good order. He cleaned it up, lubricated the mechanical components, cleaned some switches, replaced several capacitors, made numerous adjustments to the electronics and the mechanical bits, and he found out that the irreplaceable pickup microphone was in good order. My machine works again.
In the picture, you will see my much touted private label, Swiss pocket watch which I have been tuning. As of today, it is 45 seconds fast in the past 5 days, although the rate on the timer shows a gain of only a few seconds a day with the 12 up. The rate varies in other positions. I am over the MOON!
Haven't figured out a replacement for the clip on microphone for clocks yet.
Austrian salts crystals? I think.
I put a piezo crystal on mine in the closet. It does work, but I don't like the noise that it makes. Witsche is quiet.....
The Griener is a good unit if you can find one, more quiet than the B200
For what it is worth!
Ciao! Mike