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Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Erik_H
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Canuck Canuck
I found the listing you refer to, on page 379. But I was looking for information contained in the details listed in 16-size named grades pages. After extensive searching, I have had to conclude the 16-size A. Lincoln grade isn’t represented. The serial number sequence of the subject watch I was unable to find. The style of Illinois movement with hidden crown wheel in grades 4 and 5 is known as the “Getty” model after its designer. And the only reference I could find was that the Getty model was produced in a number of different model names. Peculiar!

Same here, I could not find it in the 16s named grades pages.
These are nice watches. I have two 16s Getty models, a hunter grade 187 from 1901 and an OF private label grade 171 from 1897.
 
Canuck
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The A. Lincoln grade shows in picture form, on page 128 of the blue book. Two different styles of A. Lincoln movement are shown. The Getty model (like the subject watch), plus model 8, standard layout, for a hunter case. Your hunter cased grade 171 was also made in a “Miller” model. With the exception of one model on page 128, all watches shown on pages 128 and 129 of the “blue book” are the Getty model. I find it odd that the A. Lincoln model isn’t mentioned in the detailed pages. The Getty model was also made in a Sangamo version.
 
amcclell
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Here is my latest purchase that my watchmaker showed me while I was picking up a few watches. I think it is late 1940's or very early 50's Elgin 21 jewel, 8 adjustment, B.W. Raymond. It is fully serviced and keeping time within 1 sec per day since I got it a week ago.
20210924_180718(0).jpg 20210924_180433.jpg 20210918_190302.jpg
 
DaveK
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amcclell amcclell
… early 50's Elgin 21 jewel, 8 adjustment, B.W. Raymond. It is fully serviced and keeping time within 1 sec per day since I got it a week ago.

Beautiful, I love that dial. Do you know, is it melamine or enamel?
 
amcclell
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DaveK DaveK
Beautiful, I love that dial
My son-in-law just received his trade license as a truck mechanic, so I am giving him an early 1900's Omega pocket watch. I wanted a vintage chain to go with it and my watchmaker had one that was attached to a watch. I have long been aware of the one in, one out rule but in this case, I applied one one, one in rule. Thankfully, my wife also loves watches...
 
Canuck
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DaveK DaveK
Beautiful, I love that dial. Do you know, is it melamine or enamel?

Here is the skinny on @amcclell ‘s handsome Elgin.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/S548029

The dial is vitreous enamel on the Elgin. I have included two pictures in this post. One is of the Elgin dial with a callout, and the other is a 992B with a melamine dial, likewise with a callout. First, look at the colour difference between the two. I have never seen a melamine dial as pure white as the Elgin dial. The lustre on the vitreous enamel dial is called a VITREOUS lustre. The lustre on the melamine dial is called a WAXY lustre. Secondly, the arrow on the Elgin dial points to a clean, crisp, sharp delineation between the dial and the seconds bit. The seconds bit is a separate dial, inserted into the dial from behind, and soldered in place. That edge might have a slightly granular look, because a hole had to be cut into the main dial to accommodate the seconds bit.

The dial on the Hamilton was stamped in a die, leaving a depression for the integral seconds bit. The callout points at an edge that looks sloughed, or lacking the clean, sharp definition around the seconds bit on the Elgin.

First, the Elgin.


08064393-029D-495D-8E9F-88A772625C37.jpeg


Second, the Hamilton.
A6F834CB-CCB6-42B7-A6A2-F98E039B6EFA.jpeg
Edited:
 
amcclell
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Thanks, that information is much appreciated! I was quietly seeking a Waltham Vanguard with power reserve indicator, or a hamilton 992 but saw this and the condition was so good that I couldn't resist.
 
Canuck
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amcclell amcclell
Thanks, that information is much appreciated! I was quietly seeking a Waltham Vanguard with power reserve indicator, or a hamilton 992 but saw this and the condition was so good that I couldn't resist.

@amcclell ,

You’re looking for one of these.

33085920-E3B7-41CB-B157-6ADEC60A6A89.jpeg E1A2F322-1420-4927-849A-C7CF14C33C4C.jpeg
 
amcclell
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That's the one but with the Elgin, I am now good for pocket watches.
 
Canuck
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amcclell amcclell
That's the one but with the Elgin, I am now good for pocket watches.

There are several Vanguard indicator watches currently listed for sale on line for between $1,200 to about $2,500. However, most collectors would be quite happy to settle for your B W Raymond. I have one myself, but not as nice as yours.
 
Bob Neville
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A few weeks ago the family heads up to my wife's parents' house for a visit and Sunday dinner. I show my FIL my new Omega Speedmaster and he says oh, I have something you'd like to see. He pulls an old cardboard file box out of a closet, and it has all of this stuff that his father had collected over the years before he passed in 2019. There were at least 25 pocket watches (Howard, Elgin, Hampden, Hamilton, Waltham, Rockville, Hawthorne, National, Illinois, Ingersoll Reliance). There were several that looked like they were gold. They were in varying conditions, and a few are key-wind. There were 3 Howards that all looked gold and in really good condition and all were in the original boxes - one was engraved with a date in 1911 in original wooden box and had an original price of $140. There were 2 other Howards that also appeared to be gold, one with a smaller SN than the 1911-engraved one, and one with a larger SN, both in original boxes. The prices on those were $125 and $90 as I recall.
Turns out his father (Harry) was a watch maker/repairer for a few years after he got out of the Army after WWII, but then went into the oil drilling industry, but still apparently kept up the hobby.
A bunch of wrist watches too. We found 2 Rolexes with original papers and one Omega.
 
Canuck
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Possibly some of the watches belonged to railroaders. Rarely would a railroader carry a solid gold alloy pocket watch on the job. These were working watches, and the added expense of a karat gold case would not make the watch better suited to a hard life in a railroaders bib overall pocket with fly ash.
 
Bob Neville
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Canuck Canuck
Possibly some of the watches belonged to railroaders. Rarely would a railroader carry a solid gold alloy pocket watch on the job. These were working watches, and the added expense of a karat gold case would not make the watch better suited to a hard life in a railroaders bib overall pocket with fly ash.
Which brands were more likely the "working" watches?
 
Bob Neville
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Here's one that my wife's grandfather gave me after we got engaged (engaged to his granddaughter of course, not to him) 😉
IMG_1196.JPG IMG_1197.JPG IMG_1198.JPG IMG_1195.JPG
 
Bob Neville
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...and under the hood.
I'm new to the watch collecting hobby, so I just don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but I'm really enjoying learning form everyone here. So, what can anyone/everyone tell me about this Waltham that he gave me?
IMG_1190.JPG IMG_1192.JPG
 
Waltesefalcon
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@amcclell That's a great looking B.W. Raymond, that dial is killer. I have one from the mid 50s and I believe it has a painted metal dial.
 
Waltesefalcon
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Bob Neville Bob Neville
...and under the hood.
I'm new to the watch collecting hobby, so I just don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but I'm really enjoying learning form everyone here. So, what can anyone/everyone tell me about this Waltham that he gave me?
IMG_1190.JPG IMG_1192.JPG

One of the first things to learn is that the Pocketwatch Database is your friend. You just type in the serial number and the maker and Bob's your uncle. According to their website your Waltham is a grade no. 625, model 1899, and was made in 1903.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/12959558
 
Canuck
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Bob Neville Bob Neville
Which brands were more likely the "working" watches?

Howard, ( both E Howard and Keystone Howard), Elgin, Hampden, Hamilton, Rockford, (or Rockville?), and Illinois all produced railroad standard watches. Hawthorne, Standard, and Ingersoll Reliance did not produce railroad standard watches. You mention a NATIONAL watch. The National Watch Co. was the first name of the company that became Elgin. If the watch you mentioned was in fact made by this company, it would be an early one. Hard to say whether it might have passed as a railroad watch that early. Companies that produced railroad standard watches, likely produced a majority of their watches that were not railroad standard. To determine whether a particular watch would be railroad standard or not, we’d need to see it. Or at least have the serial number off the mechanism (not the case).
 
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