Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

I'm not trying to be rude but that doesn't address my question. I'm fairly familiar with the transition from pair cases to hunter cases and own examples of both. My question was specifically about this "protector" case. Were they popular, or at least not uncommon, in Europe or Canada? I've never seen one in the twenty-five years I've been collecting pocket watches in the US, specifically, in Oklahoma and Texas.

Earlier in the thread, the watch with the outer case was called “pair cased”. I wasn’t directing my most recent contribution to the thread at you, as I gave a thumbnail sketch on pair/hunter cases. I was just trying to clarify what is a pair case, and what is a hunter case. It seemed to me that some explanation was not out of place. As to the “protective” case on your watch, and whether they were common. I have one. It came to me on a virtually un-used Waltham Vanguard. The original owner of the Waltham was a coal miner. He might have thought about using the Waltham in his work, but changed his mind. He sold it a friend of his in 1971, and the second owner left it in the case, and he didn’t use the watch either. I bought the watch 20 years ago, still in the outer case. I haven’t used the watch either. Common, rare? They show up once in a while, but I doubt if anybody will be able to give you an answer that you’ll be satisfied with.

I think we've established that the cased watch that @Zapatta posted isn't a pair cased example, and as @Canuck noted, it's simply a case protector purchased by the buyer to protect the watch.

In Australia in the 19th and 20th century, pocket watches worn by men who wore suits to work were carried in fob pockets, usually on their waistcoat, e.g.: my Grandfather who was the town Postmaster back when that position was a well respected one.

There were many men who didn't wear a suit but still wore a watch, e.g. farmers, foresters, miners, factory workers. Based on family history, it was common for these men to carry their pocket watch in a small leather pouch on a belt.
Soldiers also used these little pouches but their use faded after WW2.

The leather pouches are still made in Australia today and are mainly used by people on the land where a wrist watch would either be at risk of damage or a danger to the wearer.

Annie's Dad, who was a forester, had a leather one on his belt that flipped down to open so he could see the time. The watch was held in the outer cover and secured by a strap and stud when closed.

Anyway, back on topic.

Here is another "pair" case 😉, well, at least pear shaped.



It's a pressed metal case with a celluloid lens and it completely protects the watch as the crown and bow are enclosed in the case, as opposed to the exposed example like Zapatta's. I imagine that this style would have been favoured by men who could wear the watch in a pocket, but still needed protection, maybe miners or factory workers.

Here I've matched it with a contemporary watch that may have resided in such a case. The watch is a Smiths issued by North Broken Hill LTD, an Australian mining company.

In an earlier post in this thread, I mentioned a Waltham Vanguard that was bought by a coal miner in the late 1950s. At the time he bought it, he also bought this protective case. He took the watch home and stashed it in a drawer, in the case, where it remained until he sold it to his friend in 1971. The second owner took it home in this case, and likewise, stashed it. I bought the watch from the second owner 20 years ago, and, likewise, have rarely used it. The last picture shows the case back with the original Butler finish which is totally original. I keep the watch in my storage case so this cover is no longer used.

Just read this interesting article on the new 125th anniversary pocket watch for only 205K EUR... In other words, peanuts!

A note about pocket watch sizes:

This is a size 12 “gentleman’s” pocket watch



This is the larger sized 16 railroader



This is the size 18 that @Fritz gave me

A bit more on the pear case.

I decided to give it a clean and remove some of the rust.
It was then I noticed it was numbered, and while the watch I showed was numbered No 23, the case is No 24.

They both came from different sources, but I wonder if they were ever in the same place?
We shall never know.

@JimInOz ,

I went back to your post where you showed the Smiths pocket watch in the protector. I think I can speak authoritatively that this is not a pair cased watch. The watch and the protector are from different manufacturers, and they are from different eras. In your post you called this a “pear” case, I suspect because it is pear shaped. But a PAIR cased watch is a whole ‘nuther animal. I think the co-incidence of the consecutive numbers is just that. A co-incidence. I have added a picture of a late 18th century (approx.) PAIR cased watch which I showed earlier, in this thread.

Yes, I'm well aware of the difference, thus the descriptor "pear case".
Maybe my original attempt at humour should have been clearer, i.e.: "Here is another "pair" case, well, at least pear shaped."

I shall edit the post so that there is no confusion.

Today, I had the good fortune to meet Mr. Gary Fox, author of Canada’s Master Watchmaker Henry R. Playtner and the Canadian Horological Institute. This college was founded in 1890, and operated in Toronto, Ontario, until 1913. Playtner went on to organize the Elgin School of Watchmaking in 1919. Gary also wrote a book on the Elgin school. Both books are available from the author

Gary had with him, two of the watches that were produced at the CHI. The featured watch had been in the collection of the now disbanded Rockford Time Museum at Rockford, Illinois. It had been incorrectly attributed to a student who attended the Chicago Horological Institute, until it was discovered by that scion of horology, Eugene Fuller, who correctly identified it as having originated at the Canadian Horological Institute. Upon disbanding of the Rockford museum, the watch ended up in private hands. Gary discovered who the owner was, and contacted him with the prospect of acquiring it. He was brusquely put down by the owner. Several years later, a friend of Gary’s told him that the watch was being offered at auction. Gary jumped on it like a duck un a June bug, and was able to obtain it.

This watch was made by John Herbert Kincaid. It was one of the first watches made at the CHI. It was made in 1890. You can believe me it was an especial thrill to hold this beautiful hand made watch in my hands as it ticked away, quietly. Kincaid went on to further his education, and he became a medical doctor, settling in Chicago. In the 1900 Cook County census, he was listed as a “watch repairer”, as he continued his medical education.

In 1945, Kincaid moved to Wisconsin to live with his son and daughter in law. He unfortunately died in a fire in 1950.

Gary has acquired a second watch that was produced at the CHI. But for now, I have to go get my glad rags on. We are meeting Gary and his missus for dinner at a local eatery. So look for a second instalment in this series, in the next day or so.

If you are interested in acquiring one (or both) of Gary’s excellent books, they are available from the author at:

[email protected]

or

[email protected]

The pear case cleaned up nicely. Interesting coincidence that the watch and the case had sequential numbers.

I was looking at a local on-line auction yesterday and one lot was simply described as “Curio Tray”. In the photo (you can see it here) was an old strap that I have never seen in person. It held either a watch or a compass. I bought the lot simply for that strap, in case I want to make some in the future. It contained a small Sterling case pocket watch. The watch does not work and is not worth fixing, but now I have that strap! The strap is designed to be worn with the buckle piece down. The strap is comfortable and keeps the little watch in place. I have a few similar watches that have fixed lugs. I think these are referred to as transitional (or something?). Canuck will know.

This whole business of “transitional” watches seems like a grey area. True, many of the very earliest watches which were worn on the wrist, were often ladie’s watches, hunter cased or open faced, which enterprising folks repurposed so they could be worn on the wrist. The hunter case models seemed to be the most sensible, as the crown was at the 3 like most modern wrist watches. Add wire lugs at the 12 and 6, put a strap on it, and voila, a wrist watch. Open faced models proved more of a challenge to convert because the crown was at the 12. Very often, a swivel was fitted to the case pendant, a lug fitted at the 6, and you had a somewhat awkward wrist watch. On occasion, a converted open faced watch had lugs added at the 10 and 5, so the watch sat skewed on the wrist. Conversion dials and cases were available to convert an open faced watch for wear on the wrist. But with these, the seconds bit would be at the 9. There are usually signs that show on the case that suggest a pendant watch had been converted for wear on the wrist.

Over the years, I have encountered numerous watches that had been crudely converted. Lead solder securing the lug wires. Earliest factory wrist watches likely followed the trend of these converted watches, but were more skillfully done. Many watch companies claim to be the “first” ones to produce wrist watches, Even as far back as the late 19th century! But does anyone really know?

I have read that soldiers often wore a pocket watch in a pouch on the wrist. Wading across a river with your watch in your pocket is not recommended! @Duracuir1 ’s leather pouch would likely have been encountered very frequently, before the wrist watch appeared.

Nice! I did the same thing a while ago, still haven’t made the strap, but plan to this fall. I like your strap a bit more than mine 😬

Clearly, both running, and likely set to the correct time when the picture was taken. I can see the chronograph being owned by a wealthy race horse owner, being used as his multi-million dollar thoroughbred was being trained. Then, the Movado being worn at a time later, with his thoroughbred in the winner’s circle! Thanks for showing them.

But clearly, the UG could be used tomorrow, by the owner of the multi-million dollar thoroughbred. The scenarios would be equally relevant in the 1940s, even if his horse was only 100 grand.

In 1973, Secretariat’s owner Penny Chenery syndicated Secretariat for over 6 million bucks. Maybe Penny Chenery owned the UG!

This is not a stellar example, but it may be of interest. It was brought to me by an estate dealer for an opinion. The watch is by E Howard, & Co., Boston. Not E Howard Watch Co. (Keystone). Edward Howard was very enterprising. He had manufactured horse drawn fire wagons for fire departments. Steam powered pumps. He manufactured magnificent clocks, mostly weight driven tall clocks, wall clocks, tower clocks, and regulators. He submitted plans for postal scales to the post office, to supply a rapidly expanding post office in the 19th century. He won the contract. Many of his postal scales were still in use in the 1970s. He was contemplating manufacturing steam locomotives, when Aaron Dennison convinced him to partner with him in manufacturing watches. The two were principles in what eventually became the Waltham Watch Co. After dissolving the relationship, they went their separate ways. When Edward Howard died circa 1903, the right to use the Howard name on watches was sold to the Keystone Watch Case Co. Thereafter, the company became the Howard Watch Co. This example is by the earlier E Howard & Co.