Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Canuck · Mar 29, 2021

From the Usher Gallery in Lincoln, England. As you will see, the dial shows two winding arbors. I’d love to be able to describe this artifact in infinitesimal detail, but it is too long since we visited the museum. And we were given a description of the items, but there was no opportunity to see them (or hear them) operate. So I am going to call this one a clock/watch. A watch that strikes the hour and half-hour. I don’t think it is a petit sonniere, or a grande sonniere. These would likely have a third winding arbor.

On the reverse side of the item, it may be observed that there are automata! Figures that move during the striking sequence. The figures in the foreground appear to play instruments, while the figures in the background, dance. The ornate portico has three, and possibly four colours of gold. Rose gold, yellow gold, green gold, and the white metal might be silver, as this artifact predates the alloying of white gold, and I very much doubt it is platinum. The scene in the break arch is all hand decorated vitreous enamel which I have discussed on several other items.

The pearls are Oriental pearls, native pearls, or gem pearls. They are not cultured pearls. Considering the fact that these pearls grew in the wild, it would likely take a very long time to match these pearls for size, colour, lustre, and evenness of surface. I’ll make several more suppositions about this artifact. It is likely French in origin, it is likely karat gold, and quite sizeable, and heavy. I can’t see it being carried in a pocket. It is likely late 17th or early 18th century, and probably has a verge escapement, and fusee.

Now, don’t you think that every serious pocket watch collector should have one of these? Yeah! Good luck!

Canuck · Mar 29, 2021

Time for another one. Twenty years ago or so, I was in the jewellery store of a fellow I was doing watch repairs for. He had suffered severe reversals in his health, and his wife was not able to run the store alone. He was shutting the store. He showed me two pocket watches, and asked me if I was interested. I asked him what his price was. He told me to make him an offer. I said, “how about all the money I have on me right now?” He said it was okay. I emptied my pockets, and I had $245.00 (Cdn.) on me. The deal was done. I don’t remember which is the other watch that I bought. But this was one of them. Here’s the skinny on it.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/10076468

Gold filled, 25-year hunter case. This watch has received very little wear in it’s approximately 115 years of existence. There are two repair numbers in the case back. I might have serviced it when I bought it, but I don’t remember. The cartouche on the front cover is hand-engraved with the winner’s initials. The engraving on the front and rear covers is called “barleycorn.” This form of decoration tends to show how much the watch has been used, as it wears off. The finish on this one is almost as new. The chart I checked indicates a production date of 1903-04. With a presentation date of 1903, the case could be original to the movement.

The inner cuvette is hand engraved denoting a first prize, “single canoe”, dated 1903, and with the winner’s name. And there are initials denoting either an association, a canoe club, or a race. The first owner apparently didn’t use it. Since he came in first, it is clear he didn’t drown in the race.

Canuck · Mar 30, 2021

Who can add to this thread, on the topic of famous watches. Infamous watches permitted! Here is a famous watch owned by an infamous dude.......Al Capone. It recently sold at auction. Here is a link to the story, and the auction.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyo...-for-high-dollars-at-auction/?sh=1ab14eb6275f

Waltesefalcon · Mar 30, 2021

From the article:
"The watch was crafted by the Illinois Watch Company, originally known as the Springfield Watch Company, founded in Springfield, Illinois, in 1870. In 1928, the Illinois Watch Company was purchased by the Hamilton Watch Company, which continued to operate under the Illinois name. Emphasis shifted from pocket watches to wristwatches, but the Great Depression forced Hamilton to close the factory. The company is currently owned by Craig Stone, and it produces and repairs watches out of Quincy, Illinois."

Since when did the Great Depression shut down Hamilton? I also followed the link to the shop owned by Craig Stone and it's a watch repair shop with no actual affiliation to Illinois. Poor research on the part of Forbes, I'm willing to bet someone just went and googled it.

TexOmega · Mar 30, 2021

Dietrich Gruen and Son ( see logo on movement)
High grade Movement made in Madretsch, Switzerland : close to Biel/ Bienne
Circa 1894-96 prior to “and Sons” in 1897.
Solid 14kt gold Gruen case and dial.....dial says 21j and movement says 17j but this is the way I bought it.

Olive had very good taste.......

Canuck · Mar 30, 2021

Waltesefalcon
From the article:
"The watch was crafted by the Illinois Watch Company, originally known as the Springfield Watch Company, founded in Springfield, Illinois, in 1870. In 1928, the Illinois Watch Company was purchased by the Hamilton Watch Company, which continued to operate under the Illinois name. Emphasis shifted from pocket watches to wristwatches, but the Great Depression forced Hamilton to close the factory. The company is currently owned by Craig Stone, and it produces and repairs watches out of Quincy, Illinois."

Since when did the Great Depression shut down Hamilton? I also followed the link to the shop owned by Craig Stone and it's a watch repair shop with no actual affiliation to Illinois. Poor research on the part of Forbes, I'm willing to bet someone just went and googled it.

Hamilton closed the Illinois factory? Hamilton remained in business until about 1969, as a manufacturer. Maybe this dude bought the rights to the NAME Illinois for use on watches?

A number of years ago, Citizen watches were popular all around the world. But they didn’t put in an appearance for a long time, in Canada! Why? Some dude checked to see if the Citizen name as it relates to watches, had been registered in Canada! It hadn’t! He registered it as his property. I don’t know if there was a financial settlement, or if he failed to maintain the rights to the name.

DaveK · Mar 30, 2021

Waltesefalcon
...Poor research on the part of Forbes, I'm willing to bet someone just went and googled it.

You’d think that with all the pop-up ads on the Forbes site they could afford some stellar research. Off topic, but that many ads on a website makes them look like they are 3 days from bankruptcy (or Bangkok, as auto-correct suggested)

Thanks for sharing the article @Canuck

Canuck · Mar 30, 2021

TexOmega
Dietrich Gruen and Son ( see logo on movement)
High grade Movement made in Madretsch, Switzerland : close to Biel/ Bienne
Circa 1894-96 prior to “and Sons” in 1897.
Solid 14kt gold Gruen case and dial.....dial says 21j and movement says 17j but this is the way I bought it.

Olive had very good taste.......

OOOOOH! Now that is outstanding!

Canuck · Mar 30, 2021

Mahatma Gandhi’s watch. I heard he carried a Westclox Pocket Dax on a boot lace. But does anyone really know?

https://thetruthaboutwatches.com/2020/12/gandhis-pocket-watch-who-cares/

Canuck · Mar 30, 2021

TexOmega
Dietrich Gruen and Son ( see logo on movement)
High grade Movement made in Madretsch, Switzerland : close to Biel/ Bienne
Circa 1894-96 prior to “and Sons” in 1897.
Solid 14kt gold Gruen case and dial.....dial says 21j and movement says 17j but this is the way I bought it.

Olive had very good taste.......

There is a good outline on the Gruen Watch Co. and it’s connection to the U S based Columbus Watch Co., on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_Watch_Co.

Canuck · Mar 30, 2021

TexOmega
Home Watch Co...... (American Watch Co (Waltham) lower line watches)
18s 7j Model 1857 KWKS
Circa 1874
American Watch Co coin silver case

Earlier in this thread, @TexOmega showed this Home Watch Co., 18-size, key winder in a coin silver case. This watch was made by the American Waltham Watch Co., at a time when they were battling against the Elgin National Watch Co., for market share. Nowhere on this watch is the name American Waltham Watch Co. mentioned. The company felt producing such a cheap watch might reflect on the company. In a follow up post in reply to the Home Watch, I mentioned that Waltham did a watch that was even cheaper. The model was called the “Broadway.” It too is an 18-size, 7-jewel, key wind, key set model. To the watch. Here’s the skinny on it.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/6895076

I was delving into my stash, earlier today, and this artifact surfaced. You will notice it is a “sidewinder”. The movement was likely meant for a hunter case, but I suspect the case suffered, and the movement was fitted into an open-faced, Silveroid case, so the pendant is at the 3, not the 12. At one point, a previous owner thought it might improve the look of the watch to have the white metal case, gold-plated! A lot of good that did. You will notice that the dial on this one doesn’t hide the fact that this is a Waltham product. The dial on the Home watch posted by @TexOmega is not marked with the Waltham name. The Home watch is marked BOSTON, and the Broadway is marked Waltham. The HOME watch was made about 10 years before the BROADWAY watch was built. Perhaps by the time the BROADWAY was built, Waltham lost some of their vanity? Go figure!

LesXL · Mar 31, 2021

I must have had an @JwRosenthal moment as my eBay warned me about a bidding I had that was about to end...

A few minutes later, I'm now the owner of a new pocket watch, an Elgin grade 315 Art Deco. Thing is that the watch is coming from the UK so will have some extra import taxes post Brexit!

Will post pictures once received.

I think it will be a nice one 😀

Canuck · Mar 31, 2021

LesXL
I must have had an @JwRosenthal moment as my eNay warned me about a bidding I had that was about to end...

A few minutes later, I'm now the owner of a new pocket watch, an Elgin grade 315 Art Deco. Thing is that the watch is coming from the UK so will have some extra import taxes post Brexit!

Will post pictures once received.

I think it will be a nice one 😀

@LesXL ,

Looking forward to seeing it.

Canuck · Mar 31, 2021

About 35 years ago, early on in my watch collecting life, I was at a collectibles show about 200 miles away. I spotted this one. This was back in the day when there were still a few of these around that hadn’t been collected, rarely to see the light of day, again. And while it wasn’t cheap back then, it came home with me. The case it was in at the time was a bit threadbare, with brass showing around the edges. I lucked into a much newer Waltham 1623, 1948 vintage Vanguard sometime later. It was the newer version with the melamine dial which I consider second choice to the double-sunk vitreous enamel dial. So I swapped cases, and sold the 1623. I recovered what the 1623 cost me, so I gained a nice case, gratis.

Here’s the skinny on it.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/25401594

TexOmega · Mar 31, 2021

My favorite Hamilton case style and my favorite Hamilton dial style if you twist my arm.
1948 992B

And my favorite condition.

Canuck · Mar 31, 2021

@TexOmega and @DaveK appear to have a matching pair of 992Bs! Impeccable taste, both of you! I must comment on the quality of the photography in this thread. Well done, everyone! Love these watches!

DaveK · Mar 31, 2021

TexOmega
My favorite Hamilton case style and my favorite Hamilton dial style if you twist my arm.
1948 992B
.

The #11 case is the coolest 😎

Canuck · Mar 31, 2021

A pocket watch with a detent “chronometer” escapement, as shown on the U S version of the Antiques Road Show. We haven’t had one of these presented in this thread.

TexOmega · Apr 1, 2021

Ingersoll Junior
circa 1929 after Waterbury Watch Co. bought them out of bankruptcy.
Metal dial
Blued hands
Works....and more importantly......keeps pretty good time.
Ingersoll was famous for successfully marketing these "Dollar Watches" via mail order, primarily.

Canuck · Apr 1, 2021

Waterbury Watch Co. was eventually bought out by U S Time.........Timex! They were the biggest manufacturer of watches in the U S. 95 million watches! I showed my Ingersoll Yankee, earlier in this thread. It has a dummy crown, and the back must be opened to access the winding key and setting knob. Your Ingersoll appears to be stem wind, and stem set. You have to wonder how many of the 95 million watches they made, ended up in the landfill! As an aside, my late father opened a jewellery store, 75 years ago. At the time, the Westclox Pocket Dax (the equivalent of the “dollar” watch in 1946), sold for $ 4.75! (My Yankee also runs! OMG is it noisy!)

According to my Shugart book, yours might have been made circa 1899. My Yankee has a 10 million serial number, and Shugart says it was made circa 1905. The Yankee was the first watch introduced, that sold for $ 1.00. It was introduced in 1891. Yours appears to be a bit more “deluxe!”