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Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

noelekal
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Thanks Canuck!

The fact that the seller says he can't open it bugs me.

I noticed the case and it seems much less worn than others I've noted through the years of watching Ebay for a watch with similar appearance. The netting motif on my great grandfather's watch was more worn than is seen on the Ebay auction watch.
 
Canuck
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
This is my old English pocket watch, it's a Josh Johnson Liverpool fusee watch with an English lever escapment. This watch was probably made by either his son or one of his grandsons as the case hallmarks place it a couple of years after his death.

The Silver pair case was made by Joseph Harris of Coventry, hallmarked 1849. The dial is a replacement, if you look closely you can see that it is not hand painted, the second hand is also a likely replacement.



If you look at the last couple of photos you can see the end of the lever and the escape wheel. The obvious way to tell if it's an English lever is that the balance wheel, lever, and escape wheel make a right angle.


See the edited copy of the one photo uploaded by @Waltesefalcon. The arrow at A points at the fusee chain. This watch is a chain drive. The arrow at B points at the mainspring barrel. The arrow at C points at the “undersprung hairspring (the hairspring is under the balance wheel, not on top of it.)

B90E4212-3A47-4AB3-A2D1-1DD3F42F40DD.jpeg
Edited:
 
Canuck
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noelekal noelekal
Thanks Canuck!

The fact that the seller says he can't open it bugs me.

I noticed the case and it seems much less worn than others I've noted through the years of watching Ebay for a watch with similar appearance. The netting motif on my great grandfather's watch was more worn than is seen on the Ebay auction watch.

That seller exhibits that he is “artfully daft!”
 
TexOmega
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noelekal noelekal
Thanks Canuck!

The fact that the seller says he can't open it bugs me.

I noticed the case and it seems much less worn than others I've noted through the years of watching Ebay for a watch with similar appearance. The netting motif on my great grandfather's watch was more worn than is seen on the Ebay auction watch.


"Netting motif" ? are you describing the engine turning decoration overall? or the center decoration?
 
noelekal
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Hah!

You're right.

Hey sometimes that can a useful skill to have, artfully daft. Me? I get by on being cluelessly daft.
 
noelekal
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I'm using "netting" to describe the decoration around the center bullseye. What is a correct term for it.

It apparently was a commonly applied decoration on the silver cased hunters of the period.
 
noelekal
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It's also artfully daft for the seller to mention that he can't open the watch.

How difficult could that be?
 
Canuck
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TexOmega TexOmega
"Netting motif" ? are you describing the engine turning decoration overall? or the center decoration?

Otherwise known as “barleycorn.” The centre decoration is called a “cartouche.” Usually engraved with the owner’s initials. Cartouche is a French word, the English translation being “cartridge.”
 
Canuck
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
This is my old English pocket watch, it's a Josh Johnson Liverpool fusee watch with an English lever escapment. This watch was probably made by either his son or one of his grandsons as the case hallmarks place it a couple of years after his death.

The Silver pair case was made by Joseph Harris of Coventry, hallmarked 1849. The dial is a replacement, if you look closely you can see that it is not hand painted, the second hand is also a likely replacement.



If you look at the last couple of photos you can see the end of the lever and the escape wheel. The obvious way to tell if it's an English lever is that the balance wheel, lever, and escape wheel make a right angle.


If you look very closely, you may be able to see that the Arabic numerals in the seconds bit ARE hand painted. As to the Roman numerals. These dials could be decorated by hand, stencilled, silk screened, or pad printed. This dial was likely done by the one of the latter three methods.
 
TexOmega
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We are bumping into 2-3 languages here, and a fourth if you think in terms of mostly uneducated, mid-19th century Country Everyman, unadorned, American/Scottish/slang.😉




Luckily, I have just enough Cherokee to cancel my French/Scottish/German blood and make myself somewhat civilized.
Edited:
 
Canuck
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TexOmega TexOmega
We are bumping into 2-3 languages here, and a fourth if you think in terms of mostly uneducated, mid-18th century Country Everyman, unadorned, American/Scottish/slang.😉




Luckily, I have just enough Cherokee to cancel my French/Scottish/German blood and make myself somewhat civilized.


Bear in mind that timepieces have been evolving for about 350 years, many different countries, and numerous languages. Style changes have evolved as well. Many design features might be called by several different names. i. e. Engine turned, hobnail, barleycorn, etc. etc. Use the term you are most comfortable with.
 
Waltesefalcon
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To better illustrate the "English" lever I found a photo online. In this photo you can see the escape wheel and the lever. The lever is conveniently labeled, you can see the pallets by the escape wheel and the impulse notch on the left end where it would engage the balance wheel when the watch is assembled.
 
EnglishLeverAnno.jpg
Canuck
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
To better illustrate the "English" lever I found a photo online. In this photo you can see the escape wheel and the lever. The lever is conveniently labeled, you can see the pallets by the escape wheel and the impulse notch on the left end where it would engage the balance wheel when the watch is assembled.

Thanks to @Waltesefalcon for posting the English lever watch. Here, I have identified more parts of this movement.

A/ The fusee. Otherwise known as a spiralling volute curve. This movement is a “chain drive” chain not shown.

B/ The mainspring barrel. Normally hooked to the fusee (A) by a chain about 4” long.

C/ The maintaining power ratchet wheel. Key winders (such as this one) tend to stop during winding. A maintaining power spring (beneath A) works with the maintaining power ratchet wheel, to keep the watch running during winding.

D/ This “hook” works with another component (not shown) to assure the watch is not damaged during winding.

E/ The maintaining power ratchet works with the maintaining power ratchet wheel (C) to hold the power stored in the maintaining power spring (not shown). The moment the winding key starts to wind the watch, the maintaining power spring takes over and keeps the watch running.



D43B6051-E61F-4E9E-AAA7-69A5278AB8F5.jpeg
 
Canuck
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Another watch with a story.

Several years ago, I posted a reply on the NAWCC message board. The thread pertained to an 18-size, 1892 model Waltham marked for the Canadian Railway Time Service. I happened to mention that I didn’t own one of these. Lo and behold! A month or two later, I received a private message from a collector in Dalmellington, Scotland, telling me he had one. He asked if I might be interested in owning it! I replied in the affirmative! But, The watch is in Scotland, and I’m in Canada. As it turned out, that wasn’t a problem.

This fellow and his wife, love Western Canada, and particularly the Rocky Mountains! They had been considering a vacation trip, and if I wanted the watch, they would bring it along on a trip they had planned. Needless to say, they came, and I bought the Waltham.

The only information that I have been able to glean on these models of movements is that they were made in 1883, 1892, and 1908 models. The 1883 model is a model from a normal production run, on which the barrel bridge has been swapped for a CRTS engraved barrel bridge. Easy to do. Remove two screws, remove the standard bridge, fit the CRTS bridge, fit two screws. Job done. Not so simple on the 1892 model (the subject watch), and the 1908 model. On these two models, the CRTS engraving is directly applied to the bridge over the train wheels. The engraving had to be applied during production, before the watch was assembled.

The CRTS, 1892 models are all 17-jewel, stem set models. The watch. Being adjusted to 5-positions, heat, cold, and isochronism (8 adjustments) meant they were railroad approved, at least for Canadian railroads. The 24-hour, double-sunk, vitreous enamel dial is a Canadian dial.

A277ABDC-DB30-4ABC-BC8A-C860BF14E3AE.jpeg AE034414-32F8-4069-8833-480723562C76.jpeg






Here is the 1883 model of the CRTS Waltham. This one is a private label, the dial marked for G W Beall, Lindsay, Ontario. These originated at Waltham. A standard production model is modified by changing the stock barrel bridge for a CRTS one. The Waltham “grey book” lists the grade of these as “Special.” This model can be seen with barrel bridges engraved in a variety of ways, including Canadian Pacific Railway. These are both 1883 models. You may notice that the damascene finish on the CRTS bridge on these two, doesn’t match the damascene finish of the rest of the movement. I’ve never seen one that did match!

388DA5BA-295F-4DF8-9F79-26D90924CC1D.jpeg 1FEF1202-FFB2-4E32-A45E-CB8259F8787B.jpeg FF626EA4-12B5-4304-BAE0-EFB1690F6E63.jpeg 87C17AB4-6A41-4BD8-BF53-E0F822E0E063.jpeg
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padders
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I have a UK 9K gold cased pw with what I think is a 1908 model Waltham movement, its very pretty but has no Canadian or railway connection though, so apologies if it is OT for the current discussion:

IMG_8390.jpg IMG_8391.jpg
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TexOmega
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Any and All pocket watches are welcome!

Big, small, fancy, common, heirloom or not.

And any items related to PW's
 
E
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This one isn't mine; it belongs to my dad. He was given it several years ago, and was able to date it to around 1951.
 
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DaveK
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Canuck Canuck
...Here is the 1883 model of the CRTS Waltham. This one is a private label, the dial marked for G W Beall, Lindsay, Ontario. These originated at Waltham. A standard production model is modified by changing the stock barrel bridge for a CRTS one. The Waltham “grey book” lists the grade of these as “Special.” This model can be seen with barrel bridges engraved in a variety of ways, including Canadian Pacific Railway. These are both 1883 models.
388DA5BA-295F-4DF8-9F79-26D90924CC1D.jpeg

From the Fenelon Falls Gazette, July 10th, 1880

A90E7095-0B71-4E14-A452-B8B40B116A63.jpeg 403ACDFB-B43A-4E4C-AC35-E2034F287A54.jpeg
 
TexOmega
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National Watch Co. (early Elgin)
Circa 1873
18s 11j Model 1, grade 12, KWKS, M. D. Ogden
Dueber 5oz coin silver case all hinges have a hefty "SNAP" (this PW can multitask as a defensive weapon in a pinch!)


DD45D373-8B91-4502-B25C-C28E7618EB0F.jpeg C7698D92-4C82-4B00-B701-087BEF57E713.jpeg 0796DFE3-DEB8-4201-9733-3CA541C98E39.jpeg 5D8F166E-F768-4BDF-9BB4-715A4ED04270.jpeg 94E8F367-1DC5-4BE7-85A5-19F858BAF1CD.jpeg 8E70C8DF-1FFB-40AA-B1EC-DD097F4E4EE5.jpeg


Needs a thick crystal, hairspring a bit untidy, so I never sought to repair it.
Will get a crystal since they can be sourced.
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