Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

ghce · Jun 18, 2023

Canuck
The double sunk vitreous enamel dial (if original to the watch) might indicate an 1892 model movement of above average grade. I rarely see a d/s dial on an 1883 model. Rare to find a matching pair of “keyhole” hands. They are fragile. Please let us know what the movement is.

Hi Doug, you have accurately highlighted my reason for purchasing this one with an unseen movement.

I am picking that it is probably a 15 or 17 jewel version with a patent regulator and the added bonus was the original hands which have survived in what looks to be good order.

The chasing on the case also points to it being something better than the basic traveller movements that made it to this side of the planet.

Oh well my fingers are crossed.

Canuck · Jun 18, 2023

Back to the dial. The movement could be an 1877 model if that dial is original to the movement. At one time, Waltham was known as the American Watch Company. A dial from that era would have the location name Waltham beneath the A W Co., or as in the case of the subject watch, Am. Watch Co. Having thought about it, if the dial, marked the way it is, is original to the movement, the movement would not be an 1892 model. By then, the company was known as Waltham. I have two 1877 model Walthams in original cases. Both have dials marked for the American Watch Co., Waltham. Both of these have a stem retaining screw on the BACK side of the pendant, and both are lever set. The subject watch doesn’t have the stem retaining screw I would expect to find on an 1877 model. So this one could indeed have an 1883 movement in it. Interesting to speculate,

ghce · Jun 18, 2023

That was my thought too, that it is likely an 1883 movement simply as it has a similar dial and hand set up to my 1883 watch bought last month, though as you say the dial naming script is a little different.

Canuck · Jun 18, 2023

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/5716764

It is a better grade 1883 model as per above. I’m certain that A W Co. was re-named Waltham before the 1883 model was introduced. So that still leaves the question as the the name on the dial of the subject watch. Using up old stock dials? A re-dial? It is a sharp movement for an 1883 model.

ghce · Jun 18, 2023

Just bought another unusual one 20 minutes ago, initially I was going to buy it for its case, mistakenly thinking it was a Waltham ( sellers Description) until I realised it was no such thing but a US Watch Co watch and perhaps somewhat rarer.
I am sure it will come back to bite me with a broken balance or an odd gear train wheel as these parts are probably a lot rarer than a Waltham.
One of the other reasons for buying was the inscription, sometimes they devalue the watch but in this case I think it does the opposite, the mentioned company is still operating today in Australia and whats more a well known one with a long history dating back to Colonial times.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/u.s.-watch-co.-waltham-mass/710372

Sorry for the slightly blurry seller pics.

ghce · Jun 19, 2023

And for the money shot, just arrived in and haven't had a chance to look it up yet.

Canuck · Jun 19, 2023

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/4679913

The scoop on @ghce ’s handsome frostie 1883 Waltham. The pocketwatchdatabase site states that there was a private label run included in this series called “Special Railroad King “ (grade?). Looks like it could be. Adjusted to 3 positions, temperature, and isochronism. The 1883 model Waltham in all grades was produced in the millions. But this grade has a fairly low production. The double sunk dial seems right for it. Good looking watch.

ghce · Jun 19, 2023

Looks even better in the flesh, my wife took one look and said "Wow, that looks much better than the photos!" And I have to say I agree, it has real presence just a shame for the wear thru of the gold plating on the back of the case.
Hopefully my Watchmaker will have a mainspring to hand.

ghce · Jun 19, 2023

Also picked up the US Watch Co PW as well this morning, the balance wheel looks in great order and the movement looks pretty clean so I am hoping for a successful resuscitation.
New hands, glass and a service and this rare bird might yet fly.

Canuck · Jun 19, 2023

ghce
Looks even better in the flesh, my wife took one look and said "Wow, that looks much better than the photos!" And I have to say I agree, it has real presence just a shame for the wear thru of the gold plating on the back of the case.
Hopefully my Watchmaker will have a mainspring to hand.

Those Waltham mainsprings are available. Let me know if there is a problem with availability.

ghce · Jun 21, 2023

ghce
Also picked up the US Watch Co PW as well this morning, the balance wheel looks in great order and the movement looks pretty clean so I am hoping for a successful resuscitation.
New hands, glass and a service and this rare bird might yet fly.

Well look and Ye' shall find. Talk about hitting the jackpot with this watch!

All the details of this newspaper article dated 30 January 1905 2 days after the presentation of this watch detailing both the owners name and the presentation of the watch are included along with his history and imminent departure from Adelaide Australia to the South Island of New Zealand where I purchased this watch yesterday.

Can you get better than that?

JimInOz · Jun 21, 2023

ghce
Well look and Ye' shall find. Talk about hitting the jackpot with this watch!

All the details of this newspaper article dated 30 January 1905 2 days after the presentation of this watch detailing both the owners name and the presentation of the watch are included along with his history and imminent departure from Adelaide Australia to the South Island of New Zealand where I purchased this watch yesterday.

Can you get better than that?

Bit of nostalgia there. As a kid I remember Harry's from visits to Adelaide in the 1950s. If you needed anything, they had it.

The "hardware" side of Harris Scarfe (actually called "Harrys") eventually became Bunnings, a little local hardware chain.

We still shop at HS for lots of basic clothing and houseware. Can't beat the prices and if you find something in your size, it's a bargain.

ghce · Jun 21, 2023

JimInOz
Bit of nostalgia there. As a kid I remember Harry's from visits to Adelaide in the 1950s. If you needed anything, they had it.

The "hardware" side of Harris Scarfe (actually called "Harrys") eventually became Bunnings, a little local hardware chain.

We still shop at HS for lots of basic clothing and houseware. Can't beat the prices and if you find something in your size, it's a bargain.

Its all a bit of a small world isnt it, always shopping here in NZ at Bunnings lol.

I've done a bit more research on the owner of the watch Harold Allchurch and it appears I am related to his family by marriage, hmmm small old world!

Bernhard J · Jun 22, 2023

Bernhard J
Here is a "bycatch" from last weekends auction. Vaucher Frers, about 1830. What I had to pay, including premium, was the gold scrap value.

It has several unusual features. First, it is a duplex. Second, the duplex wheel is steel. Third, the hairspring stud is on the "wrong" side, Fourth, the gaps of the compensation balance are on the "wrong" side of the balance spokes.

I really wonder how other could have overlooked this watch. Other pocket watches did well.

Now I have it in hands. And see what the cuvette inscription says. Fully jewelled duplex (roller and impulse stone). And it runs well. I do not know why the auction house did not include a photo of the cuvette.

Canuck · Jun 22, 2023

How different to the pocket watches I collect. I am always intrigued by such ancient and well preserved examples of the watchmaker’s art. Very rarely do I run into such watches in this part of the world. If I did run into such examples, I’d have to think hard when it came to whether I would add them to my collection or not. Great to look at, thanks for showing it.

ghce · Jun 23, 2023

Just back from a full service Omega 19''' Chro

Bernhard J · Jun 23, 2023

Hm, the "full service" apparently does not include proper installation of the hairspring, as evidenced by the regulator being totally off? Was it done by Omega?

I personally would complain ...

Aside this, lovely watch with a perfect dial!

Waltesefalcon · Jun 23, 2023

Bernhard J
Hm, the "full service" apparently does not include proper installation of the hairspring, as evidenced by the regulator being totally off? Was it done by Omega?

I personally would complain ...

Aside this, lovely watch with a perfect dial!

I agree that the regulator being all the way advanced is a red flag. I would not entrust a watch like this to Omega though, not with some of the horror stories we've had on this forum with Omega service on vintage pieces.

Waltesefalcon · Jun 23, 2023

ghce
Just back from a full service Omega 19''' Chro

That's a stunning watch. Congratulations on it.

ghce · Jun 23, 2023

Bernhard J
Hm, the "full service" apparently does not include proper installation of the hairspring, as evidenced by the regulator being totally off? Was it done by Omega?

I personally would complain ...

Aside this, lovely watch with a perfect dial!

Yes he made mention of the regulation not being very good so he must have spent a bit of time on it.

He had issues with some of the Jewels which he could not find replacements for, ideally he would have changed them however they were serviceable, this may contribute to the regulation not being as he would have liked.

I will have to see if he can have further investigation of it.