Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Canuck · Mar 9, 2025

I have a wannabe railroad watch as well. By the standards of today, this watch would be classed as a fraud. The information I have is that it was done for a Chicago firm by Trenton Watch Co. (Trenton, New Jersey). The movement is marked “23-jewels” (it has 7-jewels, plus 6 celluloid “cap” jewels with no hole jewel. Total 7 + 6 =13 jewels.). Adjusted (NOT adjusted). Name on the dial “Locomotive Special” and a locomotive and tender (dead giveaway t’ain’t no railroad watch). Probably sold for under $10.00 110 years ago, when a legitimate railroad standard watch would have sold for 4 x the price. Nickel silver case. Likely showed enough visible cues to convince the unwary that it was legit.

Canuck · Mar 9, 2025

Duracuir1

I recognize that watch.

ghce · Mar 9, 2025

Canuck
I have a wannabe railroad watch as well. By the standards of today, this watch would be classed as a fraud. The information I have is that it was done for a Chicago firm by Trenton Watch Co. (Trenton, New Jersey). The movement is marked “23-jewels” (it has 7-jewels, plus 6 celluloid “cap” jewels with no hole jewel. Total 7 + 6 =13 jewels.). Adjusted (NOT adjusted). Name on the dial “Locomotive Special” and a locomotive and tender (dead giveaway t’ain’t no railroad watch). Probably sold for under $10.00 110 years ago, when a legitimate railroad standard watch would have sold for 4 x the price. Nickel silver case. Likely showed enough visible cues to convince the unwary that it was legit.

I would think even by the standards in place at its manufacture and sale fraud would have been legally what it was especially with incorrect jewel count doubled down with having fake jewels let alone the fraudulent use of the word adjusted.
It's always interesting to look back at past trading practices that Some Swiss companies employed, so prevalent was this sort of practice as soon a I see the word swiss on a PW and or listing I just move on which is a bit sad as there were some genuine and good movement manufactures also many of which appear in the PW thread.

Canuck · Mar 9, 2025

In the world of watches today, fraudulent copies of famous watches abound. For the most part, the sources for such copies are anonymous, and the legitimate manufacturers just seem to shrug off the existence of such fraud. My fake railroad watch was made before legislation to counter such flagrant misrepresentation existed, I suspect. It appears that first happens the fraud, then the legislation.

TexOmega · Mar 9, 2025

American Watch Co.
circa 1867, one of my oldest US pw.

18s PS Bartlet KWKS
5oz Coin Silver case

And, Mr. Taylor must have had a sense of humor, love the bug 🐛 motif.

Had this one 25 years or so, works when wound, finally need to get a visit to my watchmaker scheduled.

Canuck · Mar 9, 2025

I had trouble opening the pocketwatchdatabase.com site today. But the early American Watch Co. watch posted by @TexOmega appears to be from circa 1867. My earliest AWCCo watch is an 1857 model. Made circa 1875. The movement is engraved Waltham Watch Co., and the dial is marked American Watch Co. The dial likely made much earlier than the movement.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/856357

The information says “adaptable” which means, being a key wind, key set movement (not stem wound), the movement could be used in an open faced case, or rotated 90° counter clockwise, and used in a hunter case.

Canuck · Mar 9, 2025

TexOmega
American Watch Co.
circa 1867, one of my oldest US pw.

18s PS Bartlet KWKS
5oz Coin Silver case

And, Mr. Taylor must have had a sense of humor, love the bug 🐛 motif.

Had this one 25 years or so, works when wound, finally need to get a visit to my watchmaker scheduled.

Finally opened the pocketwatchdatabase site. Here is the info on @TexOmega ‘s watch.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/374328

This information uses the word “adadptable” which means the movement could be used an either an open faced case or a hunter case. However, when the @TexOmega watch was made (circa 1867), chances are that the American Watch Co. might not yet have been producing open faced watches.

ghce · Mar 9, 2025

TexOmega
American Watch Co.
circa 1867, one of my oldest US pw.

18s PS Bartlet KWKS
5oz Coin Silver case

And, Mr. Taylor must have had a sense of humor, love the bug 🐛 motif.

Had this one 25 years or so, works when wound, finally need to get a visit to my watchmaker scheduled.

Well I guess this is why " Belt and Braces " were a common dress accessory back in the day as with 5 OZ of silver and then the watch movement itself you had half a pound pulling your pants down! or dragging on your waist coat. Still that mass of gleaming ( you better polish it up) silver in a PW is very satisfying with the in-hand feel, my similarly dimensioned and weighted silver 18S Waltham is the absolute favorite in my collection for wearing!

TexOmega · Mar 9, 2025

ghce
Well I guess this is why " Belt and Braces " were a common dress accessory back in the day as with 5 OZ of silver and then the watch movement itself you had half a pound pulling your pants down! or dragging on your waist coat. Still that mass of gleaming ( you better polish it up) silver in a PW is very satisfying with the in-hand feel, my similarly dimensioned and weighted silver 18S Waltham is the absolute favorite in my collection for wearing!

It also doubles as a stealth defensive weapon......whap an accostor on the 'ol noggin with a quick move, and you're off to the Symphony.

Polish off 150 years of patina?? An abomination. Turn in your Vintage Watch ID card, my friend. 😀

ghce · Mar 9, 2025

TexOmega
It also doubles as a stealth defensive weapon......whap an accostor on the 'ol noggin with a quick move, and your off to the Symphony.

Yeah and he's off to the Observatory looing at stars 😵‍💫

TexOmega · Mar 11, 2025

Sears Roebuck Special grade 64
Manufactured by Illinois
18s 17j circa 1903 RR grade
Cool gothic font
One was a timid watchmaker and one was the gregarious marketing genius.

DaveK · Mar 11, 2025

Canuck · Mar 11, 2025

TexOmega
Sears Roebuck Special grade 64
Manufactured by Illinois
18s 17j circa 1903 RR grade
Cool gothic font
One was a timid watchmaker and one was the gregarious marketing genius.

The pocketwatchdatabase info on the Sears pocket watch listed by @TexOmega .

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/1660899

This watch is listed as having been produced circa 1903, it is listed as a hunter case model, and the list (above) classes it as railroad approved. It was my impression that the hunter cased movements were not railroad approved by 1903! That, plus by 1903, to be railroad approved, a watch also had to have the name of the actual manufacturer listed on the dial.

Canuck · Mar 11, 2025

Another interesting private label watch brand that was produced by the Illinois Watch Co. was the Washington Watch. Produced for the Montgomery Ward Co. They were heavily into catalog merchandising, just like Sears Roebuck.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/guide/companies/washington-watch-co

Competition was steep between the two firms. Sears was smart. He knew his catalog would be in the homes of people who also had a Montgomery Ward catalog. So Sears had his catalog designed to be smaller than the Montgomery Ward catalog. The logic being that it would be placed on TOP of the Montgomery Ward catalog!

Roebuck sold out to Sears after a while. Things didn’t go well for him. He later rejoined Sears as a watchmaker, and he died penniless!

TexOmega · Mar 11, 2025

Yes indeed, not RR approved, but as stated, a RR grade movement.

Canuck · Mar 11, 2025

DaveK

And in only three years, no less! I have long held that pocket watches are waaaay more interesting than other types of watches! The pocket watch came to light late in the 17th century, so it has been around for about 350 years! That gives the pocket watch an unfair advantage.

TexOmega · Mar 11, 2025

Cool info

DaveK · Mar 11, 2025

Canuck
Another interesting private label watch brand that was produced by the Illinois Watch Co. was the Washington Watch. Produced for the Montgomery Ward Co. They were heavily into catalog merchandising, just like Sears Roebuck.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/guide/companies/washington-watch-co

Competition was steep between the two firms. Sears was smart. He knew his catalog would be in the homes of people who also had a Montgomery Ward catalog. So Sears had his catalog designed to be smaller than the Montgomery Ward catalog. The logic being that it would be placed on TOP of the Montgomery Ward catalog!

Roebuck sold out to Sears after a while. Things didn’t go well for him. He later rejoined Sears as a watchmaker, and he died penniless!

I can’t see a Christopher Ward watch and not have my mind go to Montgomery Ward

Canuck · Mar 11, 2025

DaveK
I can’t see a Christopher Ward watch and not have my mind go to Montgomery Ward

No connection @DaveK . The Montgomery Ward watch was dialled for the Washington Watch Co.

Montgomery Ward history:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Ward