Cal 420 Seamaster advice-1958?

nickrp · Jan 27, 2020

Hello first post from new member and a thank you for what I've already learnt on these forums.
This is my Dads Seamaster which I'm getting mended and serviced -he didn't look after it that well! I've loved this watch since I was 8 for many reasons and may pass to my son. (Although he wants a modern deVille!)
Here is what I know:
Case reference: 4337
Calibre: 420
Movement serial reference: 16206080 which suggests a 1958 watch.

The work is being done by an OM accredited service centre. They will get it moving again, service it and replace the glass and crown. Having looked on the vintage database this looks like a CK 2814-but there is no photo. I cant seem to find a photo of a face like it. Did Dad have it changed? It has a smooth back.

Any extra info on this watch anyone can share would be really lovely.
The service shop have suggested a full dial refurb.( £300) I'm torn on this as I quite like it looking old but not maybe damaged-if done well what do people think-how would it look?
What would an original strap have looked like -did it come with a choice of colour?
thanks in advance

DON · Jan 27, 2020

Not sure I understand this part - The service shop have suggested a full dial refurb.( £300)

Is that for a movement cleaning and having the dial redone or just for the dial?

420 is a small watch. Are you or your son going to wear it? if not. Don't bother.

Middle bridge doesn't match and looks like a replacement. Also poor condition compared to the rest of the movement

Problem with dial restoration is that some stick the old and dingy hands back on a refinished dial. My old refinisher would replate the hands, so they looked new to match the restored dial.

If they can't do that. It's like repainting your house, but leaving the old faded and worn door as is. An eye sore

You need to decide if the cost is worth it

DON

padders · Jan 27, 2020

That is a Dennison cased model, assembled in Handsworth Birmingham using an imported Swiss dial and movement. The 4337 is a Dennison number not Omega which is why you may be finding it difficult to find a match. The dial looks correct for the style of case but may have seen some work previously, the Seamaster text looks a little off but it is very dirty so it may in fact be fully original just hidden under grime. I agree with your estimation of date, 16.2m would be around 1958.

nickrp · Jan 27, 2020

DON
Not sure I understand this part - The service shop have suggested a full dial refurb.( £300)

Is that for a movement cleaning and having the dial redone or just for the dial?

420 is a small watch. Are you or your son going to wear it? if not. Don't bother.

Middle bridge doesn't match and looks like a replacement. Also poor condition compared to the rest of the movement

Problem with dial restoration is that some stick the old and dingy hands back on a refinished dial. My old refinisher would replate the hands, so they looked new to match the restored dial.

If they can't do that. It's like repainting your house, but leaving the old faded and worn door as is. An eye sore

You need to decide if the cost is worth it

DON

Thank you. Its £300 just for the dial, I will ask if it includes the hands. I would expect a light clean and any lume as/if needed as part of the service? The service is the Omega price-they are an Omega accredited service centre. The movement is very dirty I guess not well sealed for ages. Its not about the money as I'm never letting this go. I think I'll wait to see how it comes back before deciding on the dial and hands. It's an old watch. It's small, I wore it for a few years, it makes me smile every time I look at it-daft really. My 2013 black wavedial Seamaster does the same! . I think with the right strap my youngest daughter may like it. The middle one wants a pre owned Rolex datejust for her 21st! My Dad has a lot to answer for.....

padders · Jan 27, 2020

N nickrp
Thank you. Its £300 just for the dial, I will ask if it includes the hands. I would expect a light clean and any lume as/if needed as part of the service? The service is the Omega price-they are an Omega accredited service centre. The movement is very dirty I guess not well sealed for ages. Its not about the money as I'm never letting this go. I think I'll wait to see how it comes back before deciding on the dial and hands. It's an old watch. It's small, I wore it for a few years, it makes me smile every time I look at it-daft really. My 2013 black wavedial Seamaster does the same! . I think with the right strap my youngest daughter may like it. The middle one wants a pre owned Rolex datejust for her 21st! My Dad has a lot to answer for.....

Who exactly are you using? Just because they are Omega accredited doesn't mean you are getting an Omega redial (if such a thing exists), they are probably farming it out to David Bill or V Soni, who will charge them more like £125, £300 is very steep for that kind of work. Omega themselves only do restoration in Bienne and the cost is into the thousands, in the UK or elsewhere they will only replace with a recent part if one is available. I would be inclined to get it serviced and leave the dial, or I you can't live with it get it tidied up yourself at a much reduced cost.

nickrp · Jan 27, 2020

padders
That is a Dennison cased model, assembled in Handsworth Birmingham using an imported Swiss dial and movement. The 4337 is a Dennison number not Omega which is why you may be finding it difficult to find a match. The dial looks correct for the style of case but may have seen some work previously, the Seamaster text looks a little off but it is very dirty so it may in fact be fully original just hidden under grime. I agree with your estimation of date, 16.2m would be around 1958.

brilliant=thank you. I always wondered if it was a "franken watch" this is kind of in the middle. The old man worked at Rolls Royce cars and I wouldn't have put a bit of factory moonlighting having gone into the case!

Were these common place and considered a little " second class"? He wasn't a wealthy guy in his late 20s so this kind of fits. It also had a mesh steel bracelet that I can't find. I never saw leather on it.

padders · Jan 27, 2020

Not a franken, what we call local production. It was common with precious metal cases due to import taxes and examples are found all over the world, in the USA, South America, Europe etc. Steel cased models like this were less common but are still seen here and there. I suppose there may be some stigma that it is a UK case vs a Swiss one but not much, Dennison are very well regarded and made the cases for amongst others Rolex and things like Hillary's Smiths Everest. I bet when it was sold, there was no disclosure at all that it was partly a UK model and if there were they would have used it as a plus not minus. Buy British!

nickrp · Jan 27, 2020

padders
Who exactly are you using? Just because they are Omega accredited doesn't mean you are getting an Omega redial (if such a thing exists), they are probably farming it out to David Bill or V Soni, who will charge them more like £125, £300 is very steep for that kind of work. Omega only do reservation in Bienne and the cost is into the thousands, in the UK or elsewhere they will only replace with a recent part if one is available. I would be inclined to get it serviced and leave the dial, or I you can't live with it get it tidied up yourself at a much reduced cost.

yes they sub the dial work out. I'm very much inclined to follow your advice. This is about whose it was, not so much about what it is. I see now why great condition vintage watches are so desirable.

ChrisN · Jan 27, 2020

N nickrp
I think I'll wait to see how it comes back before deciding on the dial and hands. It's an old watch. It's small, I wore it for a few years, it makes me smile every time I look at it-daft really.

I'd wear it without working on the dial as well. It sounds like it has great emotional attachment so, not daft at all.👍

Cheers, Chris

nickrp · Jan 27, 2020

I'll stick some pics up when I get it back-now strap black, navy or tan...mmmmm
Had green one a while ago, quite liked it.
And saving for a Moonwatch ( recent as never afford a vintage) me. DeVille (Latest with power reserve) Son and Datejust for a daughters 21st. All used.
They better say thank you. I did.

DON · Jan 27, 2020

N nickrp
Thank you. Its £300 just for the dial

Last time I used my refinisher (granted quite a number of years ago). I paid about $50.00 Canadian. Guy he trained charges $60.00 or so.

They don't go it. They send it out and double the price, but at $391.00US. I hope they at least throw in the chair they're bending you over

A ridiculous price. $125 is better, but not having restored any watches for awhile. Not sure if that price is a touch high

I'm going to do you a favor

Pay me s/h and will send you a replacement bridge from another 420

Can email me at [email protected]

Regards

DON

nickrp · Jan 28, 2020

DON
Last time I used my refinisher (granted quite a number of years ago). I paid about $50.00 Canadian. Guy he trained charges $60.00 or so.

They don't go it. They send it out and double the price, but at $391.00US. I hope they at least throw in the chair they're bending you over

A ridiculous price. $125 is better, but not having restored any watches for awhile. Not sure if that price is a touch high

I'm going to do you a favor

Pay me s/h and will send you a replacement bridge from another 420

Can email me at [email protected]

Regards

DON

Thanks for the very kind offer. I will message you. I have a quote from David Bill, as suggested earlier for the dial and hands which is £150 approx includes postage and tax. So I'm going to see how the watch looks when returned before thinking about that. I'm afraid Im not sure which is the middle bridge. There does seem a lot of different colours in the photo!! -the movement and back are very dirty and it was taken under very mixed lighting types. Having looked at photos of 420 online there does seem some variations-but as I don't know what I'm looking at (yet) I will be wrong.I will post a better photo of the movement post service. Thanks again.

nickrp · Mar 25, 2020

I'm back! Watch arrived by post as due to UK virus restrictions I couldn't pick up. Lots of new parts. I just could not be happier, it looks fantastic, old obviously but oh lordy does it sound lovely- previously it sounded like a tractor Had a basic strap put on it. I think I'm going to give it to my Son.No pics of the movement as the shop was rushing to close because of the virus restrictions. New crown and new parts.It may not be perfect-don't care, family history-feeling quite emotional looking at it anew! Thanks to everyone who joined in it's little story

watchyouwant · Mar 28, 2020

Good Outcome ! How much was it in the end? Kind regards. Achim

padders · Mar 28, 2020

It looks loads better. Was the dial cleaned or was the crystal just filthy in the picture above?

wilderbeast · Mar 28, 2020

I think this is a good result, especially if you are happy with it and are going to give it some wrist time. It looks a lot better!

my restored cal 420 from around the same time (1956-7) says hello:

nickrp · Apr 7, 2020

wilderbeast
I think this is a good result, especially if you are happy with it and are going to give it some wrist time. It looks a lot better!

my restored cal 420 from around the same time (1956-7) says hello:

Now that really looks nice. I just love the 2 tone "coachwork" on these dials.Can I ask if you had the dial refurbished and the hands either replaced , cleaned or refurbished as well? I think my instinct is to leave mine alone now. The hands still look a bit grubby, but If i sort them I'm worried they will not look right in relation to the dial.

nickrp · Apr 7, 2020

padders
It looks loads better. Was the dial cleaned or was the crystal just filthy in the picture above?

They gave a light clean to the dial. They did orginally say they would replace the glass but didn't in the end-so just cleaned it inside and out. Given the dirt inside the movement and the deterioration of the seals I guess its no surprise the "front of house" was so grubby!

nickrp · Apr 7, 2020

watchyouwant
Good Outcome ! How much was it in the end? Kind regards. Achim

The final bill was £485. Service, new crown, strap and insured postage.I guess as they are an Omega service centre it was more. Mind you as it was fixed price I think I may have got ok value as they did have to get quite a few parts given the level of wear in the movement. I think this is the first work the watch has had in over 20 years.

nickrp · Apr 7, 2020

When I'm able I will finish the job and post a picture of the movement.
I'm going to see if my Son does want it, if not I think it would work well on my youngest daughter given its size.

Cal 420 Seamaster advice-1958?

nickrp

DON

padders

nickrp

padders

nickrp

padders

nickrp

ChrisN

nickrp

DON

nickrp

nickrp

watchyouwant

padders

wilderbeast

nickrp

nickrp

nickrp

nickrp

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