Buyers expectations

zebion · Jan 27, 2019

I can understand your disappointment. I would have the same issue with this. I am also desperately looking for a white-dialed Ranchero. Lume would be very important for me in the end, since I believe to be too much of an perfectionist.
On the other hand, I do have a black-dialed Ranchero with relumed hands. The re-coloring of the lume perfectly matches the color of the original dial although the grain size is slightly different compared to the original one - however, someone invested quite some time to make the colors match so well. This is also a kind of craftmanship that I worship: Probably you could think about this, get a partial refund big enoug to cover the cost of a well-done relume of the one dot and some money left to overcome the bad feelings.

jljl123 · Jan 27, 2019

VintageWatchIta
It happens very often. If I could give a suggestion, ask the seller to make a video under sun light, rotating the watch in different position (and slowly). I think it is the best way to see clearly how the watch really is. If is possible, try to do not base only on pics.

+1 on this. Everyone has a phone that can shoot video nowadays. I do this now when I sell my watches.

The seller sounds sketchy. He/she could’ve easily sent updated photos.

FreelanceWriter · Jan 27, 2019

It's never acceptable to advertise anything using photos that don't accurately depict the condition of the item at the time of sale. IMO, some of the differences described by the OP could possibly be excused as being a function of lighting, but it also looks like some of the plots were actually repainted after the photos were taken, most noticeably at 7:00 and 8:00.

skipper · Jan 27, 2019

You know, you're absolutely right there, didn't notice it when I looked at it originally as I was focusing on that 11 o'clock plot, but as well as the 7 & 8 plots, take a look at the minute track between 7 & 8, and even that 'hole' in the pointer end of the hour hand looks less severe in the 'after' shot. Looks like the dial has seen some serious action between sale listing and delivery...

Dan S · Jan 27, 2019

skipper
You know, you're absolutely right there, didn't notice it when I looked at it originally as I was focusing on that 11 o'clock plot, but as well as the 7 & 8 plots, take a look at the minute track between 7 & 8, and even that 'hole' in the pointer end of the hour hand looks less severe in the 'after' shot. Looks like the dial has seen some serious action between sale listing and delivery...

I think all of those apparent dial issues are due to flaws in the crystal in the "before" photo. I see no different in the hour hand, the before photo is also a bit out of focus.

skipper · Jan 27, 2019

You may well be right, I didn't consider the effects of a compromised crystal, in which case I'd ignore pretty much everything I said above... 😗

gemini4 · Jan 27, 2019

FWIW, as an owner of a few Rancheros, the lost of the lume plot (plus broken and/or incorrect seconds hand) would be reason to return the watch.

Stufflers Mom · Jan 27, 2019

I recently bought a watch sold as NOS, but it had seen some action while in the shop and had a fair amount of nicks to the case and bezel. That said the price reflected this and the warranty is 5 years.

TexOmega · Jan 27, 2019

Well, with that much lume gone, if shipping was the cause, you should see some bits floating inside, or be able to detect some bits with UV light.

And, if you do detect floaters, factor in a service to clean what entered the movement.( if you keep it)

Varnado · Jan 27, 2019

Never buy from Italian Sellers (from Italy) and if that sounds racist in some way then so be it. I have done many deals on both sides with Italian buyers and Sellers and they rarely went smoothly. So, now I make no deals with Italians or Singapore, but thats a subject for a new topic.

Regarding this watch, it 100% goes back. Dont ask for partial refund, no if ands or buts. Dispute it if you have to, but this was shipped this way with full knowledge of seller. No lame floating in dial, crystal has been polished or replaced so original photo is not the same as item received.

TexOmega · Jan 27, 2019

Varnado
Never buy from Italian Sellers (from Italy) and if that sounds racist in some way then so be it. I have done many deals on both sides with Italian buyers and Sellers and they rarely went smoothly. So, now I make no deals with Italians or Singapore, but thats a subject for a new topic.

Regarding this watch, it 100% goes back. Dont ask for partial refund, no if ands or buts. Dispute it if you have to, but this was shipped this way with full knowledge of seller. No lame floating in dial, crystal has been polished or replaced so original photo is not the same as item received.

That last line dovetails with my first question to a seller " are the pictures 100% accurate or has the watch been damaged since the pictures were taken?"

I evaluate answer before proceeding with question 2.

hungdangnguyen23 · Jan 27, 2019

I'm also curious how the watch lost that lume plot between the time photo to receipt of the watch by OP.

If it's not due to rough shipping in transit (unlikely due to the specific location of the damage and nowhere else), maybe the seller had the watch serviced and the watchmaker was negligent?

Other than that, unfortunately I agree with the sentiments expressed by other members here that I've been warned by other more experienced guys in the watch game to avoid sellers from certain countries. Italy does happen to be one one of the more frequently accused offenders...

bloomy · Jan 27, 2019

Some quick phone photos taken under a UV flashlight along with Geiger counter readings. Note they are in different cases and this could change gieger readings:

Ranchero ref 2990 in question from OP(Geiger counter tops out at 1030 CPM from topside of crystal):

Sterile Ranchero Dial(crystal has many scratches but dial is more or less 100% flawless including lume plots, reads 1060 CPM on gieger counter)

SM300 I am wearing today next to watches from above

Evitzee · Jan 27, 2019

Buying vintage watches from overseas is an activity I would approach with caution, just too much to go wrong with descriptions not lining up to the actual condition of the watch. And now you have the hassle of sending it back and all the hassles that entails, and then getting a credit to your card. You can always dispute the charge but that usually gets messy with lots of hoop jumping and form filling out. Good luck.

FreelanceWriter · Jan 27, 2019

Dan S
I think all of those apparent dial issues are due to flaws in the crystal in the "before" photo. I see no different in the hour hand, the before photo is also a bit out of focus.

What about the points on the hour markers at 7:00 and 8:00? In the seller's photos, they seem quite clearly to have empty white spaces near the tip; in the buyer's photos, they've been completely filled in with black.

Dan S · Jan 27, 2019

FreelanceWriter
What about the points on the hour markers at 7:00 and 8:00? In the seller's photos, they seem quite clearly to have empty white spaces near the tip; in the buyer's photos, they've been completely filled in with black.

Look closely and you will see scratches/flaws on the crystal obscuring the tips of the markers. Very obvious at 7, harder to discern at 8. A similar scratch also obscures the 38-second line. Actually, it might be the same scratch (or crack) that obscures the 38-second line and the tip of the 7 o'clock marker. Hard to tell if it continues, or if there is a break in the middle of the scratch.

Flaws in the crystal often appear as damage to the dial. The best way to tell the difference is to compare photos taken from different angles, because if the damage is actually to the crystal, the apparent damage on the dial will move to different locations.

southtexas · Jan 28, 2019

Dan S
Look closely and you will see scratches/flaws on the crystal obscuring the tips of the markers. Very obvious at 7, harder to discern at 8. A similar scratch also obscures the 38-second line. Actually, it might be the same scratch (or crack) that obscures the 38-second line and the tip of the 7 o'clock marker. Hard to tell if it continues, or if there is a break in the middle of the scratch.

Flaws in the crystal often appear as damage to the dial. The best way to tell the difference is to compare photos taken from different angles, because if the damage is actually to the crystal, the apparent damage on the dial will move to different locations.

Always a good idea to have photos of dial/hands taken out from under crystal to see true condition of both. Here’s a good example:

Before polywatch crystal cleaner:

After polywatch crystal cleaner:

Now take off the crystal to see what we have:

bloomy · Mar 22, 2019

Update: I decided to keep the watch and despite the seller offering a small price consideration I let him keep his money.
I then contacted a few watchmakers and now the end result is here...

zebion · Mar 22, 2019

bloomy
Update: I decided to keep the watch and despite the seller offering a small price consideration I let him keep his money.
I then contacted a few watchmakers and now the end result is here...

nice replacement for the hands!

Buyers expectations

zebion

jljl123

FreelanceWriter

skipper

Dan S

skipper

gemini4

Stufflers Mom

TexOmega

Varnado

TexOmega

hungdangnguyen23

bloomy

Evitzee

FreelanceWriter

Dan S

southtexas

bloomy

zebion

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