BIRKS observatory with Rolex movement

Canuck · Jan 31, 2022

@Foo2rama suggests in his latest post that the word Observatory on the dial of the subject watch, that “having Observatory on the dial of a non-chronometer watch meant nothing”! Yet I showed a picture of the same basic caliber 600 movement (the Royalite) that has Observatory on the dial, and a movement that is timed to 5 positions, heat, and cold. One watch with Observatory on the dial with a movement that is clearly not a chronometer, and another one with Observatory on the dial, the same basic caliber, that clearly IS a chronometer movement! How these things happen on watches that are 90 years old, produced at a time when (it appears) Rolex had an “anything goes” attitude, is not possible. My contention is that the subject Birks Rolex just MAY have been produced as you see it. Why anybody would feel creating a “fake” with BIRKS on the dial, rather than ROLEX would be an easier sell, is unclear to me.

Foo2rama · Jan 31, 2022

Are you arguing that my reasoning for it to be real is wrong while your mad at me for suggesting it’s a fake?

observatory means nothing, it suggests something. International trade law defined the word chronometer and that would mean it was a certified movement from one of the places that did certification. ( they where not all in Switzerland for the record)

Canuck · Jan 31, 2022

At one point, you suggested the word Birks was poorly hand painted on the dial! Have you changed your tune? I’ve had enough of this clap trap!

Foo2rama · Jan 31, 2022

Canuck
At one point, you suggested the word Birks was poorly hand painted on the dial! Have you changed your tune? I’ve had enough of this clap trap!

Look at it, it looks hand painted, not screen(ball) printed. Both can be true in an observation, I fail to see how what I am saying contradicts you.

Donn Chambers · Jan 31, 2022

rejd
I have read all the information provided. Thanks so much for your insight. I have a friend asking about it so I want to make sure I give him as much information as I can. I will provide him with the information from this thread. I'll see if I can find anything comparable online to try and price it.
Thanks
Rej

If the party you are selling it to is really a friend and you don’t want the watch, then why not just sell it for what you bought it for, or for just a little more? It really sounds more like you are trying to maximize your profit (now that you know it has a Rolex movement inside), which I wouldn’t want to do with a friend.

If you really want to find a fair price, list it on EBay with a no reserve auction and see what the market says. This isn’t a watch where you can find similar examples and price accordingly.

Canuck · Jan 31, 2022

It might even be better to remove the “questionable” dial, set the case aside, and sell the movement by itself. That way you won’t have to deal with all the nay sayers and pooh bahs that want to made a big deal about “originality” and “fake” dial names! As a movement alone, it would probably bring a better price, listed on line, anyway!

Canuck · Jan 31, 2022

Check out this eBay listing for 3 partial calibre 600 movement, for parts. Convert the listed price to Canadian dollars. This might give some guidance for pricing a COMPLETE, RUNNING calibre 600 watch.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/265525666430?hash=item3dd290227e:g:-pkAAOSw2xhh4CHQ

I am not encouraging the OP to part out this watch. But sometimes, the total price that can be derived from selling the PARTS will bring more money than selling the complete watch. I also uncovered one other calibre 600 partial movement for sale on eBay. This movement was pretty well stripped. It was listed for over $400.00 Canadian. I have not found a complete, running, Rolex calibre 600 for sale.

rejd · Jan 31, 2022

Donn Chambers
If the party you are selling it to is really a friend and you don’t want the watch, then why not just sell it for what you bought it for, or for just a little more? It really sounds more like you are trying to maximize your profit (now that you know it has a Rolex movement inside), which I wouldn’t want to do with a friend.

If you really want to find a fair price, list it on EBay with a no reserve auction and see what the market says. This isn’t a watch where you can find similar examples and price accordingly.

LOL. please don't insult my integrity. I am not trying to maximize my profit. Just trying to figure out what I have and find a fair price for it. He has several Rolexes but wasn't familiar with this one either and asked me to figure out a fair market price for it as he wants it for his collection.

rejd · Jan 31, 2022

Canuck
Check out this eBay listing for 3 partial calibre 600 movement, for parts. Convert the listed price to Canadian dollars. This might give some guidance for pricing a COMPLETE, RUNNING calibre 600 watch.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/265525666430?hash=item3dd290227e:g:-pkAAOSw2xhh4CHQ

I am not encouraging the OP to part out this watch. But sometimes, the total price that can be derived from selling the PARTS will bring more money than selling the complete watch. I also uncovered one other calibre 600 partial movement for sale on eBay. This movement was pretty well stripped. It was listed for over $400.00 Canadian. I have not found a complete, running, Rolex calibre 600 for sale.

Thanks for that info. I have been struggling to find one for sale as well! Appreciate all the information you have provided so far! I am learning a lot.

TheGreekPhysique · Feb 1, 2022

Canuck
That movement is Rolex caliber 600, and it was made for Rolex by Aegler with whom Rolex had a partnership. Jules Jurgensen and Gruen also used this basic movement. It was made in several grades, including a chronometer grade with patent regulator, and centre sweep seconds hand, adjusted for temperature, and six positions. I am baffled that the dial on the subject watch is marked Observatory (implying chronometer), yet the movement has a standard regulator, and is adjusted to only two positions! Odd! As to vintage? My copy of the Ehrhardt, Demesy, and Specht book, Vintage American & European Wrist Watch Price Guide (book 2), lists that basic movement as being 1933. This book is the best reference that I know of, for vintage Rolex watches. It is out of print, but it can be found if you look for the ISBN # 0-913902-56-X.

Birks Jewellers is a Canadian firm (Henry Birks & Sons Ltd.). This watch was produced in an era when Rolex was still in the “private label” business. As well as Birks, Rolex also did private label watches for the T. Eaton Ltd. company in Canada. Rolex started out doing private label watches, before Hans Wilsdorf (founder) copyrighted the Rolex name, and started selling Rolex brand watches, primarily. The private label business gradually dwindled over the decades. But Rolex did private label watches for retailers, all over the world.

This is my chronometer grade version of that same movement. This one is a Royalite Observatory with sweep seconds hand, 18-jewels, adjusted to 6-positions. In other words, it is a chronometer.

My goodness gracious! I haven't seen that much knowledge dropped in a single comment since 92'.

BIRKS observatory with Rolex movement

Canuck

Foo2rama

Canuck

Foo2rama

Donn Chambers

Canuck

Canuck

rejd

rejd

TheGreekPhysique

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